The Worms video game series has a fun item: ropes.
These ropes are rigid but you can vary the length, so you can do a bunch of interesting pendulum behaviors to accelerate yourself.
If you had a long tether between two objects of different weights, and the whole system is rotating, I feel like you could get some interesting acceleration effects by rapidly shortening the tether (assuming its strong enough to not snap)
Yes I remember this, go from long to short with perfect timing and a perfect release moment and you fly off to a ridiculous distance, but the physics didn’t feel wrong about it. So it would make sense that there is something in this.
I wish I could remember one of these games in which players were tiny cars with ridiculously ominous names like Monsieur Murder (i'm paraphrasing but that was the vibe)
> A number of space tethers have been deployed in space missions.[1] Tether satellites can be used for various purposes including research into tether propulsion, tidal stabilisation and orbital plasma dynamics.
Spiral wraps (where the string wraps around the hands causing the glowsticks to spiral around into the hands) are a great approximation of a tether under tension shorting.
Flowers (where the arm spins in the same direction as the glowstick creating the visual of an epicycle) could be a nice approximation of two bodies tethered where one has significantly more mass than the other.
"You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain," or, for stories, "You either end the story well, or you continue telling it until you get GoT season 8."
Or the author continues for so many books that they pass away and it has to be completed posthumously, with with Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series.
That said, I Jordan more credit that than (the still-humous) George RR Martin, since Jordan didn't spent pages building up characters and relationships only to kill them off.
I felt the entire last third was the ending, and Stephenson – reacting to the constant (and imo legitimate) critique of his endings – was like 'screw it, I'll show them!'
I have a theory that the first three quarters of that book were supposed to be a 10 page prologue to set the scene but during writing it really got away from the author.
My theory is that he got addicted to Kerbal Space Program and spent as long as he could playing it until the editor told him finish the book without saying “delta-v” again.
Sometimes I think Stephenson is more interested in world building than in actually writing a novel. The novels are good, sure, but the world building is the best part.
Tethers are a foundational technology in Seveneves, used e.g. for linking orbiting pods into larger habitats, ascent from low earth orbit, grabbing robots and many other applications
I believe the author is talking more about movement within the solar system than about how to get to orbit. Skyhooks are amazing though.
For example, if you were on a station attached to
2019 BE5[0], that asteroid rotates once every 15 seconds. With a 60km tether, slowly unwound out from the asteroid, you'd be moving at something like 12km/s. (60km * 3.14 / 15s). All you'd need to do is wait until the plane of the orbit lines up with the destination to have in mind and release the asteroid on the end of the tether.
2019 BE5 is only ~55m across. A 60km tether that could withstand those g forces would probably be at least a few orders of magnitude more massive than the entire asteroid.
I will never understand those who want to travel to space. Feeling the elements on the skin (air, wind, water, sun, gravity..) is an essential part of adventure.
Billions of dollars and billions of miles after once you arrive you can only observe, you can't feel anything because you have to be in a spacesuit the whole time, no air, no gravity, no wind, no plants, no water, when you can feel some air is artificial.
What's the point of it all? Hubble pics + a serious VR set basically give you the same visual experience which is the only thing that maybe could be worth about going there.
Mostly the urge to explore and to learn. Partly a desire to preserve the knowledge and culture that humanity has created in the event of an extinction-level event on Earth.
Messing around in low-earth orbit, or even exploring our nearest neighbours in the solar system is like dipping our toes into a vast ocean. It's a first step on a much bigger adventure, an adventure that won't happen in our lifetimes.
It may seem impossible now, but crossing oceans in sailing ships, let alone aircraft, will have seemed impossible once.
I believe that without the familiar elements waiting for us at whatever the destination might be, it would be an asylum not an adventure.
If you play a word association game using the word 'adventure' the first thing that realistically come up to mind are:
1) Hike
2) Mountain bike trail
3) Motorcycle trip
4) Boat trip
Etc. etc.
All the above adventures have the common thing that while you are out and about you feel the elements very strongly on your skin and all your 5 senses are intensely stimulated .
In space you'd be confined and in your spacesuit your whole life and you'd also be confined in the spaceship or artificial spaces. No stimulation at all, maybe only the visuals would be stimulated but you'd be mostly staring at empty space, and the space that is not empty such as clusters and stars might be beautiful to look from afar but they are so big that you can never quite touch them, unlike a flower or a sequoia.
> > The key features of adventure are A) risk and B) novelty. Space exploration absolutely features an abundance of both.
If that is the case there are billions of activities ranging from unprotected sex to drug smuggling to drug consuming to riding motorcycles to hitting on wives on cartel bosses in Latin America...all right here on Earth and available to those who want to try them for a few bucks.
I still mantain that feeling the elements on your skin and have all 5 senses stimulated while moving fast (but not too fast that you need protection) is the best definition of adventure and the one that most people would agree on...AKA "I'm flying Jack!!" , what would Rose say when going to space?
"I am being propelled in vacuum by a mix of carbon, sulphur, and potassium nitrate, I can't feel anything because I am in my spacesuit strapped to the seat of this alluminium spaceship which I hope is airtight but this indicator here tells me I am moving faster than every human ever did, so it must be true, Jack!"
The more novelty there is, the more adventurous it is. The first climb of Mount Everest was no doubt a grander adventure than being one of hundreds each year today. Space is the final frontier, an untapped expanse of never-before experienced firsts.
And come on, we have plenty of great astronaut quotes: "One small step for a man, One giant leap for mankind" ring any bells?
you described bragging rights and record chasers not novelty.
Novelty is exactly the opposite of what you said.
If you have never been on the Everest (or whatever activity really) and you experience it for the first time your sensation will be the same regardless of you being #1 or #75000 in the global ranking, because it will be the first time for you.
Let’s talk practical examples, how many people have reached 120mph on a motorcycle? Millions if not billions, but when YOU do it for the first time it’s not like you are busy thinking of the millions of people who did it before you, you just have a good time.
Fuck. And I mean fuck as a verb, should we not have sex anymore because we are not the first humans to ever have sex? The first people should have never fucked because they were not the first organisms to fuck?
People who say holding their kid after they are born is the best moment of their lives, they feel on cloud 9 even though they are human #11,477,764,778 to experience such feeling
At the end of the day space enthusiasts should test their belief and go live in Antartica for some 8 months during the winter and see for themselves.
And that’s not even a true test because Antartica is the Garden of Eden compared to space
You've gotten a little lost. Adventure is not just a synonym for "something fun to do". Sex, in the most vanilla sense of the word, isn't an adventure. It's not particularly risky, and it's not novel at all. Holding a baby is not an adventure at all.
The "global novelty" aspect of adventure (aside from the "personal novelty") comes from the fact that you're entering the unknown. The adventurous nature of an activity is diminished if it's already common knowledge what you can expect from the experience.
Mine is not an opinion, we have evolved to love Earth.
Billions of people do the aforementioned activities yearly and it puts a smile on their faces. And we have been doing such stuff for millions of years
Some hundreds people have been to space and they all look like they attempted and beat the locked cabin staying record, because for the mind and the body it’s exactly that.
A locked cabin with a great view is still a locked cabin
Seeing stuff in pictures or videos doesn’t count and even if it did still 99.9999999% of the Earth would be unknown to you
And I am not even starting on fast vehicles, seeing videos or pictures of other people riding fast vehicles is absolutely not the same as doing it yourself
Same with drugs, sex, music, falling in love etc
There is unknown on Earth for 1000 human lifetimes, probably much more than that
You might have too many nines there. Based on its surface area, that's 0.51 square km or 0.15 square km of the land area.
Sure, the density of "stuff" is very irregular. But I can look out my window at more Earth than that right now. I agree with your point that there's enough on Earth for at least 1000 human lifetimes, and it's pretty fractal in nature.
There is also a massive difference between seeing the Grand Canyon or the Great Bahamas Basin in pictures and doing 54 kts on a jetski flying on water in such Basin.
We also have pretty nice pictures of the Olympus Mons so if you are snubbing the Grand Canyon and the Great Bahamas Basin just because someone else already took pics, then you should snub the Olympus Mons as well, otherwise you’d be committing a logical fallacy.
And besides, the frontier of the unknown as it pertains to humanity as a whole has moved to the micro and the nano, all stuff that requires boring research and experiments costing billions as opposed to Wild West adventure.
The main reason to snub the Grand Canyon is that it's been very well explored, not that it's had photographs taken of it.
So, although I'm willing to snub Olympus Mons a little bit if we really have such good photos of it (I don't think we do), since that does reduce the scope of the unkown. But I would still think there's much adventure to be had there as one of the first people to explore it.
> > The main reason to snub the Grand Canyon is that it's been very well explored, not that it's had photographs taken of it.
By whom? By you? Dont think so. Anyway this is stupid, if you want the thrill of first time exploration you can just avoid researching any info on the topic and head directly to your destination and explore it without any assistance
Much like Dakar riders are forbidden from using GPS
I'll never understand those who don't want to travel to space. It's an enormous universe we live in, and here we are, on one (admittedly awesome) planet. There is a great deal to learn, and many adventures to be had! Note that this same conversation has happened many times in human history; some people are home bodies, some people crave adventure, and ne'er the twain shall meet. It's a deep-seated personality trait, and you can't reason people out of either position.
The other point (which is really why I responded) is to note that space travel isn't just for humans. Robots, especially AI-driven robots, may be able to explore and exploit our solar system far better than bio humans ever could. It would make a nice division of responsibility: we get the Earth and her unique and valuable biosphere, they get the rest of the system and it's vast resources. I believe the relationship could be deeply symbiotic and fruitful for both cultures.
Nope , this is the first time that you won't find water, plants, air when you arrive at destination.
Also the first time that you'll have to live forever in a spacesuit, also the first time you won't be able to feel the elements on your skin, say goodbye to rain, wind, sun on your skin , smell of flowers, smell of rain on the soil etc. and whatever alien elements you find there, you cannot feel either because you have to be in a spacesuit the whole time.
The only thing that maybe are better there than on Earth are the visuals, but that's also a question mark, not every planet has a first row view of the Pillars of Creation. At the same time the view of the Milky Way from Earthly spots such as the Atacama Desert is pretty spectacular, and for everything else there is Hubble + VR.
Remember that Life has been around like 5 billion years - a continuous computation running on the most sophisticated computer in existence. I don't think we fully appreciate how special Life is, how special we are. It's likely that some manufacturing techniques will be best done, perhaps only done, by humans on Earth. There are many materials (organic ones) that are more abundant here than elsewhere - and in a more convenient location. The solar system is something like a vast desert; the Earth is like a great city. I would imagine that it will take a long time for space-based manufacturing to eclipse that of Earth, and perhaps it never will, for some things. Then of course there is the inherent interest in biological life - tourism, basically. It's hard to say because we don't really know what's possible out there. But I guarantee some products and services will remain economical to provide only on Earth in the long run. (I mean, if you posit magical nanotech then sure, we can't trade. But I think the future is more limited, and interesting, than that.)
Oh, another thing we can offer is 'reboot services' in the event of intense Solar activity. In return, maybe they can deflect an asteroid or comet for us. I think it will work out!
That's a perfectly legitimate comment -you are explaining the way you feel- and it's a bit of an abuse of the down/upvote buttons to downvote it. I get that people disagree with it but it's polite and I'd say a good quality comment overall so it should be upvoted back to brightness.
I'm basing this on one of dang's comments on being a "good citizen on HN":
Downvoting for disagreement is not always bad, but it sometimes is. There should be some nuance here. Don't be indiscriminate. When a comment is blatantly false, downvoting is probably ok, especially when there's something else wrong with the comment. But high-quality, polite posts don't deserve penalizing just because you don't share their position. When you see one of those in negative territory, please be a good citizen and upvote it back to par. Users doing that is one of the community's self-correcting mechanisms, and it's more important now that we've made some downvotes more powerful.
On the subject of tethers in space, I saw an interesting research project for launching objects around the moon; Launch a pair of Bolas, hooked by a detachable tether. Using sensors, unhook the tether at the right moment and one goes flying into the ground while the other gets a soft landing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACqpdXAKYHI
A rendition of this idea can be seen in the Halo TV adaptation. I can’t remember which episode(s) or find a good YouTube link right now. But there’s a settlement in an asteroid belt where the people move around on cars attached to rails/tethers between the asteroids.
You'd die before you reached the destination. Interstellar travel just isn't feasible on a human life expectancy and more importantly loss of bone density.
The middle generations that are born and will die on a spaceship didn't sign up for that. And they might not accept their fate willingly. Relying on intermediary generations to comply seems like a big flaw in any multigenerational ship plan.
No but they should have access to basic things such as to be able to experience the natural world. It would be pretty fucking depressing if you were born into a shitty spaceship and told your job is to pro-create so the next generation can experience something fun?
The earth is a space ship, the best space ship we'll ever get, we just take it for granted.
Some have also commented that we're like already as far out in space as we're ever going to get. There is probably a lot of truth to that.
> No but they should have access to basic things such as to be able to experience the natural world. It would be pretty fucking depressing if you were born into a shitty spaceship and told your job is to pro-create so the next generation can experience something fun?
That's your assertion. Billions of people have been porn into abject poverty and disease and without hope for better, have learned (and in many ways seen and experienced) much less than these space travelers would. Unless we're going the forced sterilization and eugenics kind of route, I'm not sure how it's consistent to impose your own morals and standards onto others' procreation.
Billions of people have been porn into abject poverty and disease and without hope for better, have learned (and in many ways seen and experienced) much less than these space travelers would.
I don't think this is relevant or a good counter argument, we could easily say that both scenarios are less than ideal? Being born into poverty at least means you might have options in life like, you might actually meet enough people to find someone who you actually want to procreate with? What's that going to look like being stuck in what is esentially a small shopping mall your whole life?
I'm not sure how it's consistent to impose your own morals and standards onto others' procreation.
> Being born into poverty at least means you might have options in life like, you might actually meet enough people to find someone who you actually want to procreate with?
> I don't think this is relevant or a good counter argument,
I think it is. It's a pretty weak "argument" to begin with, more like just an assertion that it's wrong (because it's wrong).
> we could easily say that both scenarios are less than ideal? Being born into poverty at least means you might have options in life like, you might actually meet enough people to find someone who you actually want to procreate with? What's that going to look like being stuck in what is esentially a small shopping mall your whole life?
In terms of the number of people you would meet? Well it would look like almost everybody for the entire history of humanity.
> Imposing morals? Trolling?
I don't understand your question. Do you not believe that "they should have access to basic things such as to be able to experience the natural world" is imposing your own morals on the procreation of others?
We're already failing multi-generational travel on a giant rock full of food, water, oxygen, and free energy. Seems weird to assume we can do it in a tin can with fewer resources and zero forgiveness for error.
Well I need to step in on this. It isn't like oh hey multi-generational... it is more complicated.
People born without the effects of gravity will not develop the same. No form of alternative medicine will fix that.
Traveling through space means that piece of society needs to be consistent with maintenance and non stop. Humans are disorganized and function independently. Small groups function together. Humans are messy and keeping that space clean will be nearly impossible.
You would need a way to grow food and handle waste. Not even the best submarines have figured this out. Even with the ISS we have to send food up and take trash back.
We are not net zero enough to even make such a project possible.
Okay so where do you get the material to make more trash that would last a few hundred years it would take several generations and hopefully noone experience health problems to achieve this goal.
These ropes are rigid but you can vary the length, so you can do a bunch of interesting pendulum behaviors to accelerate yourself.
If you had a long tether between two objects of different weights, and the whole system is rotating, I feel like you could get some interesting acceleration effects by rapidly shortening the tether (assuming its strong enough to not snap)