The site recommends crunches and leg extensions... crunches are not a great exercise for functional ab muscles, and leg extensions are generally verboten due to stress on the knees from the open chain loading.
It's good to be thinking of this stuff though. I highly recommend Athlean-X(his free youtube videos, can't say anything about his programs) and Mark Rippetoe's Starting Strength program. Between these two, I've gotten into a little weightlifting and I'm loving it. My posture is better than it's been in 40 years.
Just do yourself a favor and go slow. Muscles adapt quickly but joints take time. Lay off the creatine until you have some experience. The 2 best supplements you can take are protein and sleep. Don't forget to hydrate and don't overtrain.
If you get a trainer, get a good one. I got a bro who encouraged me to go too far too fast and now I've got a messed up shoulder. Done properly, weightlifting is one of the safest sports.
If you're a keyboard jockey like me, chances are you have weak external rotator cuff muscles, weak serratus anterior muscles, and tight pec minors. Look into correcting all of that first, before you start shredding your shoulder joint with bench presses and bicep curls.
The post is specifically on correcting weaknesses. Leg extensions verboten? That's a blatantly wrong statement because you're using it _absolutely_. Maybe for max loading, but nobody is recommending 1rm leg extensions. Specifically here it's being used to strengthen the VMO, so it would be in a moderate loading range. Without looking it up, can you think of another direct way to improve patellar tracking issues due to overdeveloped vastus lateralis?
Similarly, let's talk about 'functional ab muscles.' Functional is a needlessly vague term. Let's say I'm a powerlifter and I feel my core is limiting my squats. Don't tell me to squat more, because I am an advanced squatter and my core is weak despite heavy squatting, so clearly it would benefit from more direct work. How would you strengthen my abs so my squat can improve? Outside of extremists, most coaches supplement auxiliary lifts to improve weaknesses.
For what it's worth here's a video of Konstantinovs (800+lb deadlift) doing crunches, I don't think he would do that unless he found 'functional' value: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMjXVHHAJ70
I appreciate your enthusiasm but it sounds like you're very clearly a beginner and in situations like this you should keep a more open mind and avoid judging so quickly.
I think a valid definition of functional would be 'common in everyday life', and 'powerlifter trying to max his/her squat' does not qualify as a common everyday movement.
Parent might be referring to the assertion that the abs' main role is to prevent torso flexion (as opposed to cause it), which makes something like a Paloff press a more 'functional' movement.
Not necessarily. The demands of everyday life are sufficient to keep you strong enough for those activities.
Strength training helps with you meet the demands of the things that happen irregularly like moving furniture, clearing snow, having to take care of an injured spouse or parent, or even just playing the odd game of [sport-of-your-own-choosing].
It counters the atrophy associated with a sedentary lifestyle and delays the physical decay associated with old age and adds life to your years. It strengthens bones and improves body composition.
It makes everyday life easier and would be worth of billions of dollars if its benefits could be captured in a pill.
Leg extensions verboten? That's a blatantly wrong statement because you're using it _absolutely_.
You are wrong. It puts undue stress on the knees, even with low loads. I've had 3 knee operations (on one knee!) so I've been through a lot of PT. Open-loop exercises should just be avoided. Their closed-loop counterparts are better/just as good.
Uh, sure. Do leg extensions if you want. Generally they're frowned upon but like everything in exercise science there is some debate and shifting of opinions. Sort of like the notion that weak VMOs are the source of patellar pain and that targeting them leads to positive outcomes.
You sound like you want an argument. I'm not interested. I am proud to say I am a relative newcomer to proper strength training. I can say that your arguments do not agree with anything I've come across yet, but hey, if it works for you, go for it.
Crunches are overemphasized and should take a back seat to exercises which train your real core muscles. Most people don't need them. They need a stronger posterior chain, obliques(and all the little core muscles), back extensions and training on proper breathing.
Keyboard jockeys pretty much always have tight pec minors. I started watching other people's body mechanics years ago and I had to stop looking at my coworkers because it was distressing. Tight pecs can cause a lot of mid back problems which is how I got diagnosed.
I had this weird muscle spasm a couple inches below my shoulder blade on one side, when holding my arms out in front of me for long. Asked someone about it and they checked my shoulder rotation and told me I needed to work on that.
Test: Stand up and relax your arms at your sides. Get your arms into your most comfortable 'resting' position.
Now look at your hands. In a healthy, balanced adult body your palms are supposed to be facing each other, not pointing straight backward. When I first started working on mine, I was at almost 170 degree angle between my palms. Shoulders nearly totally rolled forward from tight pec minors. After working on it for a while I had it briefly down to around 30 degrees, but I just checked and I'm back up around 80. Back to work I guess...
A note for the "test": the problems with forearm wrist joints might tweak an angle.
After an accident with both bones broken and dislocated wrecking these in my right arm, head of ulna is out of normal placement, but I know the exact amount of force (pain is quite measurable) and direction to put my hand straight.
I like this gist of his program, but as someone who did it years ago, there's a few things I'd change.
First, remove cleans, and add barbell rows. Lots of people make this adjustment. I don't find the exercise to be beginner friendly. Second, deadlifts will be there own focused day almost immediately. Outside of one's probably first month, doing squats + bench + deadlift is nearly impossible to do in one workout.
On a personal note, I don't like his squat technique. In particular, bar placement. New people should do high-bar, exclusively. Mark's hybrid squat, and low bar squats, put a huge amount of pressure on your elbows and shoulders.
It's absolutely possible to continue doing squats + bench + deadlifts in the same workout for a very long time. After about 6 months I moved to deadlifting only once per week, but it was still done on my "heavy day" after setting PRs on my squat and press/bench press.
> Mark's hybrid squat, and low bar squats, put a huge amount of pressure on your elbows and shoulders.
I had this problem, and it turned out to be a form problem that my Starting Strength Coach fixed without switching to a different exercise. You can't do the exercise wrong and then claim there's a problem with it.
Yeah, I've been training for years and I'll still do deadlift work on a day I squat. Deadlift volume alone is so low it feels like a waste to just do that for my primary movement that day.
The only time I get shoulder & elbow pain squatting is when I'm going too heavy on volume and my form is breaking down. Otherwise I don't notice it.
The squat style has a lot to do with body types I think. His squat style completely cleared up lower back and hip pains I was having with high-bar. I think people should try both and see where their bodies are most comfortable.
Agree. Everybody’s geometry differs so choice of high or low bar will be very related to femur length vs torso length. One size fits all approach isn’t going to work for a lot of people.
I'm a big fan of HN and happy to have a reason to create an account and comment after all of these years. I thoroughly enjoy the intelligent conversation here.
As a Starting Strength Coach (there are around 130 of us), I I can confirm that a few of the comments accurately sum up the objections (rather misunderstandings) of the program that H1Supreme highlighted.
The powerclean is an important part of the novice program to build explosive power - the ability to display strength, quickly. It can be substituted by another lift, or a light deadlift day, if the trainee's injury status or age make it an unwise cost/benefit equation. But this is considered a trade-off and isn't ideal.
Yes, the powerclean is technical. So is the squat. And the press. And the bench, to a much lesser degree. Which segues into the issue mentioned in the second point. Elbow pain in the squat. As accurately described by "yepguy," this is indeed a technical error. Here's how to fix it: https://startingstrength.com/training/preventing-elbow-pain-...
A few other thoughts: pwthornton, kettle-bell cleans and snatches are not a substitute for barbell cleans and snatches. What we're chasing is adequate training stress to facilitate an adaptation. One of the primary drivers of that stress is load - weight on the bar. Kettle-bells are too light (comparatively) to create meaningful enough stress to facilitate the stress, recovery, adaptation cycle in the context of training (goal oriented exercise). More reading on the topic: https://startingstrength.com/article/training_vs_exercise
anarchodev, Rippetoe and Starting Strength are more interested in getting regular, everyday people strong than high school football players. Yes, it's a great way for getting young men big and strong (I gained 65lbs), but it's also a way to improve quality of life for octogenarians, for example. The low-bar squat is in the program versus the high bar squat because it uses more muscle mass, which means more weight on the bar can be used. Weight on the bar is the primary consideration in strength training - more of it is what's needed to get stronger. Here is a piece that analyzes the squat in detail: https://startingstrength.com/article/analysis_of_the_squat
ubercore and DataWorker, for the purposes of strength training - low bar works better. It can be applied to any body type. Shorter torso = more horizontal back angle at the bottom of the squat, and vice versa. Goal is to load the hips, which are a more robust joint than the knees and are surrounded by more muscle mass. Low-bar is not one-size-fits-all, its a model for the squat that can be applied to nearly anyone, with rare exception.
michaelgrafl the nature of goblet squats and front squats require a sub-maximal load when compared to the low bar back squat. They may be suitable for an exercise program, but they are not suitable for an efficient strength training program, and most certainly not for a novice. See comment above about training stress.
I have a ton of respect for this community and would love to interact with you guys. Let me know if I can be helpful in any way.
Definitely agree on replacing cleans with more targeted movements -- slight nitpick, none of this is "weightlifting" which is a separate sport of its own requiring these movements but incorporating power and speed to efficiently perform the snatch and clean and jerk with maximal load on the bar.
One thing to keep in mind with starting strength is that it was meant for high school football players who needed to rapidly add mass and strength. Low bar squats emphasize the posterior chain which are simply larger muscles, and will help the beginner see bigger gains faster and without spending time on the particular advanced cues necessary to perform high-bar squats correctly and safely without injuring your joints. (I'm thinking particularly of adductor strength and thoracic spine mobility.) On the other hand the low-bar squat is often coached incorrectly , resulting in much worse stress on the back and elbows (terrible cues like "knees back", etc). When taught correctly, the pressure commonly felt in the shoulders and elbows in this lift is simply a lack of flexibility and will resolve itself.
I would also find a replacement for deadlifts too. As great as they are, it's fairly difficult to find a place that would accept them. Most gyms don't like them because they create a lot of noise and possible structural damage if the weightlifting equipment is not on the ground floor.
Those sound like bad gyms. I have been to 10s of gyms in the UK and it's never been a problem. They are rarely on the ground floor and some even explained how to do deadlifts in the mandatory induction. Many gyms have platforms specifically for deadlift and sometimes proper Olympic weightlifting platforms and plates designed to be dropped from a height.
Agree with everything you said. I actually only do front squats now after a back injury from basketball. I find I can get a great squat workout with much less weight, and it forces good posture or else the bar will roll off the front of your shoulders.
Athlean-X is terrific. He is a highly accomplished physiotherapist and his videos are a treasure trove of solutions to very specific problems.
I have been following his video advice on fixing anterior pelvic tilt and lower back pain (a far too familiar problem for our types) and I can feel a tangible improvement on both fronts.
As for alternatives to crunches, variations of planks building into hanging leg raises are significantly safer.
Funny but it's true. Hell, my 3rd time deadlifting I had an appointment with my trainer and almost cancelled because of 3 different back issues which all flared up(scapular pain, mid back and a new lower back issue). I couldn't get in and out of a car without pain, but I wanted to see if things would resolve and I waited to the last minute to where I didn't want to cancel. I got to the gym and convinced myself that I could handle the movement. Put on a belt, tightened my core, and got through several sets, working my way to my PR at the time of 315. I fully expected to regret it the next day. Nope. Back felt great.
When I started doing bar squats I thought I found my favorite exercise. Then I deadlifted. I get excited thinking about them, which sounds kind of strange. The feeling I get after properly executing a heavy deadlift is... almost better than sex. My body seems to be built for the movement and moving that much weight just feels amazing. Nothing has worked my traps and hamstrings like DLs.
Muscles respond to training input much faster than tendons (which attach muscles to the bones) and ligaments (which attach bones to other bones), roughly on a scale of 6 weeks vs 6 months. This is because the muscles have a vastly greater blood supply and connective tendons & ligaments have very limited blood supply. So, it is especially critical for people who are new to weight training and those have not been in weight training for a long time to watch out for this lag.
Tendons & ligaments also take much longer to recover from injury than do muscles.
Your muscles will show measurable improvements in ability to lift more weight & do more reps within weeks. You can keep pushing it some, but be really slow and careful about it for the first couple years. Do more reps and only slowly build up the peak weights. Push it too fast and you may find yourself on the bench for many weeks with an injured tendon. This will setback your training progress far worse than managing your weight increases.
More generally, in all kinds of training, the key is that your body actually gets stronger during the rest periods after being stimulated by the training input.
Good training input actually breaks down the muscles a little bit (too much and it's just injury). The rebuilding process will rebuild them stronger to handle the input just received. So, you must train to get anything to happen, but if you train too much / rest too little, you will merely be breaking down the muscle faster than it repairs.
Another question is pain. You may often hear "push through the pain", "no pain, no gain", "pain is your friend", etc. This is partially true, but it really depends on type the pain. My general rule of thumb is: the brurning pain in your muscles that gets more intense as you get towards failure is almost always fine, push through it. But any really sharp pain that starts suddenly, in muscles or especially joints -- you are already two seconds too late -- stop the loading as quickly as you can safely do (e.g., drop the weight, but not on yourself or your spotter), in order to minimize damage. Also, immediate ice is your friend here.
Enthusiasm & vigor is great, just be sure your body also gets the time it needs to actually build the strength & fitness you seek. I encourage everyone to pursue their best fitness - enjoy it!
(Source: Fmr international competitor in several sports incl US Ski Team)
Good comment on type of pain. It’s important to realize that there is going to be some discomfort. Another thing is that the more a person lifts the less sore they get. The most sore I get now is when I come back from a 1-2 week vacation. My strength is always great, but that DOMS is rough.
Indeed -- those first workouts after an idle period - ouch!
The other thing to notice about pain and muscles vs joints (tendons & ligaments), is that you get good feedback from the muscles about how hard you are pushing -- the tiredness & burn -- so you can tell how you are doing. you need to go into that zone to really stimulate the muscle (but not so much or for so long that you break it down).
In contrast, tendons 7 ligaments give very little feedback until they are already damaged, sprained, pulled, etc. The first you hear about it is when you've gone too far.
That's why you need to be intelligent about loading them up when starting to work toward significant increases in previous strength!
There is really no need to hurry with strength training. When I started Starting Strength, I burned out after a few weeks because of too much weight, despite following common advice and really liking it in the beginning.
I'm not a fan of the No Pain No Gain philosophy. I get a lot more reps done with better recovery when I train cautiously, which means I get to do it with more consistency, which in my book is King.
Joe Rogan has a video titled "How to workout smarter" with Firas Zahabi who explains it really well. It was enlightening to me.
>Done properly, weightlifting is one of the safest sports.
The problem is that it's difficult to do properly for the average person. You can read about it and see instructions, but that doesn't tell you if you're actually doing it right. A coach might help, but then you're not dealing with the average person anymore nor do you have the freedom to choose your exercise plans, because you might not have a coach available for what you're looking for.
I wish I had known this advice about serratus anterior a year ago! I started lifting again about a year ago for the first time since I was a teenager, and started getting some shoulder pain after a few months. Strengthening my serratus anterior has helped so much, plus I can just feel my scapula moving so much more comfortably now when I reach overhead. Definitely good to strengthen these supporting muscles before going overboard with compound movements.
I really wish there were places that could legitimately analyze muscle imbalances and suggest corrective exercises. The internet only works for the most common ones, such as pelvic tilt, and sometimes you mis-diagnose yourself.
A lot of the "great" information online is bro-science, and doctors generally don't care at all, so neither is optimal.
P.S. The military uses fancy position sensors to track muscle imbalances in Pararescuemen. I really wish there was some access to that facility:
"To improve, the trainees must first be shown where they are deficient. So when they arrive, they enter the Dari Motion Capture system, something similar to what Hollywood uses to fuse actors with their CGI characters. Dari doesn’t use on-body sensors, just cameras that capture the biomechanical motions of subjects."
https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/research/a26256665...
One of the interesting things my trainer did before we started was three sessions of analysis. Measuring flexibility, symmetry, strength, and recovery. We then put together a plan to fix issues identified from that to get to a solid baseline, so that when we work all the muscles together to get better systemic performance they participate in the motions as designed.
This was stuff that he learned getting a kinesiology degree SJSU and followed up with the personal training coursework. And for a data set of one, it has helped me tremendously.
So the bottom line for me is that while there is a lot of questionable stuff out there, there are also people who have actually studied and worked on the mechanics of how all this works, which lets them create exercises that achieve a specific result. For me, I'm not interested in being a weight lifter or showing off how strong I am or big my biceps can be, I just don't want to end up driving a mobility cart around Walmart to pick up groceries when I'm 80!
Is your trainer in the bay area? I'd be interested in a trainer that is good at those things; or if anyone else has a trainer in San Francisco that does those things, please comment!
> I really wish there were places that could legitimately analyze muscle imbalances and suggest corrective exercises.
I think what you're looking for is a physiotherapist's office.
Somehow we now expect to find everything on internet or apps, and avoid human interactions &c. The truth is some things need in-person expertise and advices given by experts.
I had IT band and hamstring attachment tendinitis. I went to the best orthopedic doctor in the city. I explained my symptoms very clearly. He did identify the IT band tendinitis and walked out of the room. I had to catch him "after the appointment" to ask him why the back of my knee hurts then. He THEN did additional tests and identified the other source of the problem.
This is my experience, always. At best, the doctor confirms the problem if I prod them toward it.
I have some pain on the top of my feet now that I am running pretty fast. I am almost sure when I go to the doc they will give me a bs answer.
Shit, last time I had a pulled muscle in my back some doctor wrote "damaged disk" because he needed to put something on the paper to send me to his friend's physical therapy place. I then had to go to another doctor and get an MRI to prove that I don't, in fact, have disk damage, which would otherwise mess up my insurance rates.
I know I sound very bitter, but I find doctors literally worse than useless in most cases.
An unfortunate amount of my interaction with doctors has just been waiting for them to diagnose me or a family member with the same thing I already figured out is probably going on, so we can get the drugs or treatment to fix it. Self-diagnosis on with the Web has a bad name for a good reason, but with a critical eye you can nail what the doctor's gonna say damn near 100% of the time, or at least narrow it down to the couple things they'll run tests to decide between. It's kinda fun but also kinda sad knowing everything they're gonna say and order in advance because you read stuff on the Web for 10 minutes before the visit. Obviously never let on that you've done that.
The best are when you go through a couple and they can't figure out WTF is wrong and you finally get one who's like "oh yeah, I can't believe they didn't check for this, circumstances and your symptoms make it pretty likely and it's not uncommon" and you're like "yeah, I f*cking know, I read some Wikipedia before the first visit and have just been walking you all through the process of figuring it out, while I pay you for the privilege, but I can't push too hard or you'll think I'm a crank".
> ... but I find doctors literally worse than useless in most cases.
Yeah, same here. My hot take is: if you're not an elite athlete then you're basically shit out of luck and you are on your own, regardless of how much money you might be capable and/or interested in spending on your problems.
I have retrocalcaneal bursitis and a chronic muscle tear in my left calf. I ran through nearly a dozen people, specialists and physical therapists and physiotherapists, and no one could help. They wanted to give me cortisone injections in my heel or sent me to the ER for DVT for the calf. I spent a lot of money to _not_ be helped by these people over a period of 4 or 5 years.
I eventually found a legit physiotherapist (he works with some local athletes... MMA fighters and a couple of NHL players, so there it is) who wasn't just out to take my money from me. Through him, the chronic muscle tear is now managed completely (when I feel it coming back, I give him a call and pop in for a few sessions of excruciating deep cross-friction massage that keeps me exercising without needing breaks) and the bursitis is managed entirely by myself through a daily stretching and mobility routine that he helped me develop.
I am honestly concerned about what happens to me in the future. If he retires or moves or if I move. If I have new minor/major injuries to contend with at that point then I'm going to be back to this dreadful search or worse, having to give up specific exercises that I enjoy.
edit/ Oh, and another horror story that I managed to forget about. I popped 2 ribs last fall (brain fog, was lifting too heavy while I was tired and just trying to grind a workout out) and couldn't get it properly diagnosed either. Went to my GP, he thought it was a muscle strain. Sure, okay. I believed him. So, I had a week long backpacking trip 3 days later that I ended up going on anyway. Hurt like hell. I knew it wasn't a strain by the time I got home. Popped in to see my physiotherapist and he was able to isolate and diagnose the issue in just a couple of minutes. How can my GP miss this? You literally rub your fingers between my shoulder blade and spine and it was as clear as day. I went to a Chiropractor for a few sessions, in addition to some rehab at home like rolling on a racquet ball, and now everything is back to normal. This sort of shit, "professionals" who are utterly horrible at their chosen profession, borders on fraud for me.
All for 3x45s holds. Don't overdo it to the point where you are sore from stretching.
I also stretched my hamstrings and hip flexors. I do believe that it's all related. Specifically, I know that hip flexor tightness and weak glutes can put more strain on the IT band.
You can strengthen glutes with planks, glute bridges, and step ups.
Yup, as is evidenced by the opioid genocide... I mean epidemic. I do know some exceptional doctors, but WTF happened to cause so many to forget the hippocratic oath?
I'd contend that the very notion of muscular imbalance as pathology is somewhat in the realm of bro science. It's not that the mechanical descriptions in the article are inaccurate - weak abdominals will negatively impact your squat, sure - but there is no causal association of said imbalances or strength deficiencies with injurious outcomes. Doing a movement with less mechanical advantage just means you have to work harder to do it; but if you're physically able to do the movement, you're not going to injure yourself just by virtue of doing the movement, even if the movement doesn't conform to the mechanical ideal. The actual correlative with injury risk is stress. The cause of confusion is that doing the same movement with the same resistance but less mechanical advantage will be more stressful and thus have a higher injury risk.
> The actual correlative with injury risk is stress
This seems like a strange take to me. Aren't you essentially arguing that a faulty seatbelt isn't really a problem because the real source of injury is the collision?
The obvious response would seem to be, "well yeah, that's why we want working seatbelts", and analogously, "we don't want muscular imbalances because of increased injury risk under stress". Although other reasons also exist.
A properly trained massage therapist can do this for you. However you probably won’t find one at your local $49 massage factory. Search for “integrated manual therapy” or “orthopedic massage” along with some talk of sports or athletes. Be aware there is a ton of woowoo magical thinking in the field, but there really are practitioners who can identify weak firing patterns and suggest corrections.
Meh, I've used that system. It's no better than a well trained physio.
The problem is finding a physio that's worth a shit. I've dealt with serious injuries and complications (and recovered) over many years and I can tell you that most of the physios, chiros, trainers, and acupuncturists are no more useful than YouTube and some are even counter productive.
My best advice is to just line up the physios and work your way through them one by one until you find one that really knows their science and has intuition. You can and should expect immediate progress. If it's two steps forward and one step back you've got the wrong help. I've found that the practitioners who really understand how to help you make immediate and steady progress. Relapses are a sign that your issues are not being properly addressed. Take this advice with a grain of salt, it's from my own painful experience over several decades of sports injuries.
The problem is finding a physio that's worth a shit. I've dealt with serious injuries and complications (and recovered) over many years and I can tell you that most of the physios, chiros, trainers, and acupuncturists are no more useful than YouTube and some are even counter productive.
What I find interesting is that you'll hear similar types of comments from both people who know what they are doing and people who don't. For a lot of people "usefulness" for a professional is based solely on whether they say things they want to hear.
Totally agree. I was working out irregularly for past few years, however, in a crappy "bro-science" way. I did heavy squats, deadlifts which made my muscle imbalances even worse.
When I visited few physioterapists, they just showed me few exercises (which I could find on the internet). I recently started to work out just with my body weight and focus on my core strength. It's been better, but my back still hurts after exercise from time to time... Fuck sedentary job.
Yet their gif of a stiff-legged deadlift has the lifter bending his back.
Most fitness trainers went through a crappy class/college program and know less about fitness than the average fitness bro, let alone anything about muscle imbalances. At least, in my experience from paying a couple.
Running shoes are fine, but after you stop rotating at the hip, you've reached the bottom of the stretch for the hamstrings, and everything else is just stretching the lower back for no apparent reason; could lead to a bulging disk.
Running shoes are a bad fit for it because they both alter the mechanics of the lift by raising your heels above the toes (which is why you shouldn't deadlift in oly weightlifting shoes with thick heels either) and use amortizing cushioning that compromises your stability. You are better off using something with a thin flat sole (think chuck taylors) or just taking off your shoes.
In response to some of the endorsements of Starting Strength/Stronglifts on this post, I'd like to advocate for an alternative source of strength training information, Barbell Medicine, https://www.barbellmedicine.com/. SSLP/SL are both solid options for a complete beginner, but Mark Rippetoe's overall approach is somewhat outdated and less evidence based than BBM. They're quite similar (they were actually formerly associated, but have since split), but I find BBM's approach somewhat more sensible and nuanced; Rippetoe tends towards dogmatism in some of his beliefs about biomechanics.
No association other than being a happy customer (of all three mentioned actually, you can't really go wrong, I just think BBM is the best of the three).
Just go with anything. Strength regimens basically all work, as long as you eat enough and increase the weight, just as all diets work when you eat less. People have gotten incredibly strong lifting rocks. I used to lift barbells, then switched to more functional strength of carrying 40 lb packs up mountains and climbing vertical faces.
> Strength regimens basically all work, as long as you eat enough and increase the weight
Agreed, but I'd also contend that for a total beginner (which is the context SSLP comes up in), choosing a well structured program that will allow you to experience consistent progress will greatly increase their chances of sticking with the habit.
A second recommendation for BBM here. I especially appreciate their evidence-based approach to training programming and lack of dogmatism about resistance training. They tend to program mainly for barbell movements, but if you want to use machines or bodyweight alternatives, go for it.
That said, I'm pretty sure that any of them would regard the original link with a high degree of scepticism. I'm happy to assert that every single "weakness" identified on that page could be avoided/rehabilitated with any basic whole-body resistance training routine. People have an unfortunate tendency to latch onto information like this and assume a worst-case scenario (e.g. "if I don't immediately do all these exercises daily, I'm going to fall apart").
Also, I guarantee they would regard this info with a lot of skepticism. I compete in powerlifting, Austin @ BBM is my coach, and I have been to several of their seminars. Austin's lecture on pain and injury included a strongly worded statement (verbatim): "Weakness does not cause pain" (along with a thorough explantation that there is no evidence to support that it does).
I've been working a 5x5 barbell program, which has me squat 3 times a week, for the last year. I've never felt stronger, or faster in my life! (I'm 32). Exercise has had a very positive effect on my feeling of wellbeing, and I am glad to see that the big 5: bench press, shoulder press, row, squat, and deadlift, at least address the major sources of muscle weakness!
I would strongly recommend anyone interested in lifting to try a program like StrongLifts, or one of the alternatives, by themselves or with the help of a trained professional!
Just as a minor complaint, "Stronglifts" is just Mark Rippetoe's intermediate program lifted directly from his Starting Strength book and shamelessly rebranded.
If people are just getting into lifting, you can't do better than Starting Strength[0] for background info and mechanics on the main lifts.
Starting Strength is good to have around for reference, but the nice thing about Stronglifts for me is the app. It's high quality and makes the program very easy to follow. https://stronglifts.com/apps/
This is true, I agree. Even if you don't use the exact Starting Strength program (cleans can be intimidating for a novice), the info is good.
I'd also like to add that I've tried GSLP and found it to be my personal favorite between these 3. More important than that, however, is just going to the gym consistently. Don't get too hung up on picking the "perfect" program.
Definitely get the book, I did and it's useful -- but the value of the Stronglifts recommendation is the app.
It's well made and stone cold simple and tells you exactly what to do. It's what I did when I started the sport/hobby and I would definitely recommend it.
This plan should be everyone's plan until they have some very specific requirement. It's the most effective, most complete approach to balanced human strength (with the unexpected mental and energy benefits you mention).
"Ass to grass" squats will develop the posterior chain and the abdominals very well. The quads also grow, but in proportion (because the deeper the squat, the more the power shifts from quads to hamstrings/glutes). The abs are active the whole time stabilizing the weight. That one exercise is more effective than a dozen other isolated exercises.
It also develops neuromuscular control which most people lack. Being able to drive steady, strong, coordinated impulses from the brain to the muscles is critical for being strong, balanced, and capable of doing "anything". The only way to get that is by doing it - using many different muscle groups in a coordinated effort.
An added bonus of doing exercises like that with relatively high weight is that you even out the weak areas. With squats, most people will find abs to be the weakest link at first (if they're paying attention).
Just here to promote yoga, which besides being a full body workout, grants the practitioner the ability to identify weak links through the flow of prana/inner breath.
While Yoga may be a great way to improve flexibility, among other physical benefits, prana is no more than a quack belief if I were to be generous. Unless you're thinking of something remotely testable/measurable/not rooted in a religious philosophy/not tied to breatharianism
Disclaimer: I have no experience with the specific field mentioned here.
I do think these seemingly absurd images have tremendous value for learning.
The openly visible motions and postures are easy to teach. But there is more to movement and the feeling of ones own body that that.
As I see it at the moment, these images are shortcuts coded in emotion and in-body-experience-feelings to teach the things that are very hard to teach otherwise.
The way eg Ki is described does make it sound extremely unlikely to actually exist, but using the images while moving or just breathing is quite powerful, and one can become aware of things inside the body that are not obvious.
(One can often clearly see and feel the difference when someone does or does not do this (during the actions that need them).)
I can highly recommend to try.
edit:
Thinking of examples, the exact tilt of my hip for whatever use is best controlled by emotion. I have control about muscles in my lower body area (?) that do things to the way my body moves and reacts, this works almost exclusively over images and emotion. My posture is subtly different when I use emotion/images to work on it. I can use a lot more force when the images are right (the whole body is used, no joints at a bad angle etc, things that are very hard to do consciously.) Things like this.
It's a mistake to limit your own understanding the universe to what can be measured by science, while surrounded by perceivable phenomena that science can't explain.
It's at the very least arrogant to reject wholesale the common experience of millions of practitioners over thousands of years. Yoga is not dogmatic. Try it and see for yourself.
As for my specific claim, science has neither proven nor disproven the perception of prana, though you might consider that it has been described in many unconnected sources across the written record of history.
Again, I disagree. It's arrogant to say "Hey, X thing I believe in can cure you of Y disease because so many people think it can and you're just ignorant. Nevermind the fact that it's totally untestable or perferms equally to placebo, as long as you feel better it's working!". It's pretty not arrogant to say "Hey, you have a condition that science has at best a limited understanding of, but it might work based on the clinical trials and controlled studies that have been done. It's the best we have to go on, or you could pray."
I think you also mistake "understanding of the universe" for a perceived experience. Just because you did mushrooms at Shambala once doesn't give you a better understanding of anything except maybe why you made some stupid choices in the past.
The tradition of yoga is far more than exercise. Many parts of it, including the exercise, deep breathing, and meditation, are indeed testable and outperform placebo.
Your concept of self is something that certainly happens but is largely outside the realm of science.
Doing mushrooms certainly might impart an understand of, at the very least, the experience of being high on mushrooms. Or perhaps which parts of your perception are merely the reflection of a specific neurochemical balance.
Thousands of practitioners and millions of users also believe in the efficacy of Homeopathy. They are convinced that diluting a substance actually increases its potency! It's not very difficult to find examples of millions of people believing in nonsense. The Placebo effect is very real.
Science hasn't disproven the existence of Invisible Pink Unicorns either. But I definitely would hold off on building unicorn crossings untill we actually have evidence.
Deep intentional diaphragmatic breathing is developed through a sub-practice of yoga known as pranayama. We know now through experiment that this practice can calm the mind, destress the practitioner, and oxygenate the blood.Pranayama is said to elongate and clarify the breath.
Symptoms of underdeveloped breath include a scattered mind, trembling of the extremities, and shallow or ragged breathing. See as a primer clavicle breathing [0] vs diaphragmatic breathing [1].
You may find that deep breathing requires a specific orientation of the body. Yoga postures are in part designed to facilitate deep breathing. You may observe that your body automatically adjusts when attempting deep breaths. These adjustments _tend_ to be the same movements that encourage good posture and correct imbalances.
With much practice it becomes clear that the body is deeply and mysteriously connected to itself and to the breath in non-obvious ways. So flexing your foot or rotating your ankle may have a direct effect on the breath. Releasing the soft palette or raising the eyebrows may align the lower back. It's along these lines of connectivity that prana flows. Yoga is the process of removing the internal blockages that allow this perception, and this internal chain-reaction-like connectivity.
Turns out that deep breathing more or less requires good posture. You can fix your posture via deep breathing, and you can fix your breathing through correct posture. If you have a handle on one, you have a handle on the other.
When the breath does not flow easily, you will learn to identify the error of posture causing the blockage, and will through asana practice have the awareness and strength to correct it yourself.
Also: Mike Reinold, Eric Cressey, Tony Gentilcore, and Bret Contreras.
R/BodyWeightFitness has taught me a lot too. They have a wiki with great tips on how to regress exercises to your actual level and then progress them as you get stronger to have good form.
I have such a hard time taking him seriously, he comes off as a salesman. His video titles are so click-baity they'd make Buzzfeed blush. And I can't trust that he's putting correct information over pumping out new videos with eye-catching claims. Are there really 2 episodes per week worth of useful training information to share? I don't know that he's necessarily wrong about much (he's probably better informed than many other youtubers, whatever that says), but he just feels slimy. Why do people trust him?
He definitely plays the youtube game, perhaps too well, but his advice is consistent and well explained. I just take it as the cost of free; he presents it the way he does to maximize youtube profit, I have to wade through click-baity titles and repetition, but there's some high quality information underneath it all
Sadly this is the reality of YouTube. Genuine, quality content without clickbait bullshit just doesn't get any traction. As someone who's done a lot of fitness training I can assure you that he knows a lot. I train every day, and sometimes I just look for something new to vary things.
I think a lot of these kinds of problems arise because people generally do not learn how to relax muscles and selectively engage only those necessary for the movements they make. The human body has more degrees of freedom than it needs to accomplish the tasks of daily living - you can, for example, awkwardly walk with everything below the hip locked in place (it looks like a penguin waddle). If you can't do things one way, you can often contort yourself to do them another.
How does this cause muscular weaknesses and imbalances? If a strong muscle is pretty much always tensed up, you plan out motor sequences that avoid using the opposing one. This muscle will naturally wind up becoming weak, but that's not really the fundamental problem. It's more that you use too much of the wrong muscles to do things.
The process for learning these skills is not particularly well documented in my experience. I think this sort of thing is the core idea behind both Alexander Technique and Feldenkrais Method, but I haven't read/experienced them in depth and aren't certain about it. Both of these are mostly transmitted through (sometimes literally) hands-on tutoring. I personally picked this up through getting into Blues idiom dancing, and probably got some of the previously mentioned stuff second or third-hand. "Progressive Muscle Relaxation" is also probably relevant?
A long time ago, I read this, and it got me thinking about muscular imbalances: "Somewhere inside every man's body, there's a weak link, a weak muscle waiting to fail."
OK, seeing "exrx.net" I was thinking that TFA would be about side effects of prescription (Rx) drugs. But it's not, and is a great overview.
However, from personal experience, if you're taking a statin, and experience muscle weakness, get it checked out.[0]
> Very rarely, statins can cause life-threatening muscle damage called rhabdomyolysis (rab-doe-my-OL-ih-sis). Rhabdomyolysis can cause severe muscle pain, liver damage, kidney failure and death. The risk of very serious side effects is extremely low, and calculated in a few cases per million people taking statins. Rhabdomyolysis can occur when you take statins in combination with certain drugs or if you take a high dose of statins.
Basically, some drugs can interfere with destruction of statins in the liver, and so dramatically increase effects.
Since everyone is recommending sources of exercise and nutrition information, I'll throw in my vote for Renaissance Periodization [0] - multiple PhDs on staff who both research and compete in strength sports.
One of the most amazing books that I've read about simple ways to correct muscular imbalances, including those that result from too much sitting, is Pete Egoscue's Pain Free at Your PC [1]. His other book, Pain Free [2] is also extremely effective and informative.
Pete’s knowledge completely rewrote the way I think about my body, pain, and imbalance.
Without knowing who the audience is, its not very responsible to recommend people do certain kinds of training for "fixing" physiological issues. If you have access to medical services, please make sure to get an evaluation done before trying anything on your own. An acquaintance who had shoulder problems and read comments on a random forum (not unlike what people seem to be doing here) about using stand up presses to strengthen shoulders. Turns out he had some scapular issues and had to get surgery done to fix it. Luckily, the presses didn't make it worse, but they could have. Yes, if you're an healthy adult, you might be just fine, but you never know who ends up reading your post.
This looks like a really good resource. I find some of the descriptions a little hard to parse in lamens terms, but the Gifs of exercises if you follow the links are really helpful. Found myself saying "Hey I have this problem and it looks like I'm doing some of the right exercises".
In particular, I have shoulder issues as described in the second or third last section, along with hip flexor weakness leading to splayed feet. I don't have access to the same machines they point to, but I like that there are good ideas for low overhead exercises. Shoulder exercises have always been quite difficult, as my shoulders click as I do anything that brings my elbows behind them and become painful quick—barbell squats out of the question.
That's why I like the push-pull workout, since it focusses on building overall strength, also I've found don't just do the same exercises over and over, vary the workout, so you hit all muscle groups.
That's probably the best single page I've seen on the web for an overview of compensation patterns.
Of course, if you've never seen exrx you should definitely check out their exercises pages too! Great reference website to get no frills info on exercises complete with short gif demos.
Recommendation for those looking to build serious functional strength and avoid injury: Convict Conditioning. Emphasis is on calisthenics (body weight training) not pumping iron. Can’t recommend it highly enough.
Strongly agree with the body weight training, but also check out the bodyweightfitness subreddit [0] for good discussion and advice. They have a simple and concise starting routine [1] for people just starting out. There are also some mild critiques [2] of Convict Conditioning.
It's very good for a very practical kind of strength, but you will likely not get big very fast, if that's what you're looking for. I've been doing it for two years almost continuously with no injuries.
Sure. My interest is primarily practical strength, and by that I mean "ability to move my own body through space in practical real world situations, as opposed to sheer brute force". The end state is more “jacked” than big. Looking jacked is certainly an ego boost, but the confidence that comes from being able to stunts like one arm pull-ups + pushups, wall walking etc is by far the biggest win for me. Not quite there on the pull-ups/pushups but getting real close after about a year of training, building on a decent base. I just think gymnastics is bad-ass in general.
I’ll check out those critiques. I will say though that there is a real philosophy explained in convict conditioning about avoiding injury, proper form etc that I found extremely helpful after my first try at getting big in the gym.
[edits: fixed typo, defined what I mean by "practical" to avoid offending gym rats who can crush me with their 500 pound deadlifts]
For sure. There's the 'jacked' aesthetic, and there's being strong and capable in our own bodies alone. While those things are often found together, there are definitely times when one is lacking.
Both are practical for doing what their goals are. Sometimes people want social signaling, sometimes they want community, sometimes they want skills.
Gymnastics is awesome though. I wish there was more adult classes for general skills out there.
Bodyweight training is great (I often do it on rest days), but don't think that people pumping iron doing powerlifting are not 'practically' strong. When a person is dead lifting 500+ pounds or squatting 400+ they are strong anyway you slice it.
Seems a bit nitpicky to zero in on that one word, but okay, I added an edit. Strength is strength, I just tend to gravitate towards things that could help me in survival type situations.
The reason I zeroed in on the word practical is that it is used as a way to put down people doing something different than you. Now you’ve used survival type situations as another way to put others down.
Body weight things are great, but they have limits. The best results are going to come from a mix of body weight, power lifting, and conditioning. Any lifting program I have ever done included pull ups, dips, and pushups. Weighted if possible.
Also, if survival is really the focus, BJJ should be first above all else :)
Okay, that's a fair point and thanks for clarifying. To be clear, I'm not trying to put down all lifting - I agree with your point that best results come from a mix. My only problem with lifting culture is one particular subculture which emphasizes growth at all costs, steroids etc, which I find super dangerous and unhealthy. But I concede that I didn't make this clear with my original wording.
Also agree about BJJ. Haven't tried it out yet but hope to start training soon.
Bodybuilding is definitely an interesting subculture. They are crazy strong, but just a very different focus. And the health issues are a real problem. Check out the Ronnie Coleman doc on Netflix sometime.
I’ve been lifting for almost 20 years now and never had much interest in BB. Power lifting with oly lifts plus a good diet and I was perfectly happy with my appearance.
BJJ is definitely a super power. My only complaint is I tried it for awhile 10 years ago and let life get in the way so I quit. You mentioned confidence earlier and BJJ delivers that in spades. It also forces you to be humble. It helps you remain calm in stressful situations. I find myself at work sometimes now when everyone is stressed out wondering if I should fake excitement because I’m able to think calmly. Trying not to oversell it, but it’s pretty great.
Lol. Skeptics out in force today. Have you ever had to hang from or climb something? Or maybe slip and fall off a ledge? The ability to pull your body weight up seems like it could come in reasonably handy in certain situations.
Why? Because no one knows who the CC author is, and the model for many of the exercises is the guy from bestskills, who gives legit advice and has a well known background (gymnast).
He also doesn't try to glorify bodweight exercises like CC does.
Imo, CC is just ineffective - for example the towel method for a one-arm chin instead of just hanging weight on a belt.
There is also nothing you will get from CC that you won't get from beastskills, with more explanations and variations.
I mean, yeah, beastskills is legit for all the reasons you mention.
But it seems like it should be possible to give a shout out to beast skills without needing to disparage CC - they’re clearly working together and share the same core principles on weight training.
I can’t speak to effectiveness of towel method yet as I’ve just started it. But I did start out by adding a weight belt to pull-ups and that didn’t seem to work well after a while. I saw results when switching to the CC method, slowly working through the steps. Perhaps different methods work for different people.
Uh... if CC is a money grabbing ploy, they’re doing a terrible job of it. I have spent a total of 20 bucks for a book with a few years worth of training exercises. The ebook is available for free online with a minimal search. Same for CC 2. I’m down to hear specific critiques of CC, but accusing them of ripping people off is absurd.
Everything else you say sounds reasonable. All the best on your journey, may the strongest strongman win, etc etc
I re-read CC this weekend. I remembered why I hate it - some of the progressions are a total joke, either inefficient or straight up wrong. Specifically doing a crow stance before a wall handstand is just comical. Not only will it not carry over, but it's also harder, but the book lists it earlier in the progression. Not trying to bait you, just really didn't realize how right I was until I looked at it again. Oh and ty for mentioning CC2 - I didn't realize he was planning to write another book/it was out.
Interesting. This goes against the philosophy of [working to failure + enough recovery] that I’ve been following so far. I’ll have to do some more research here.
You've got to be kidding me. Fasting for two days + frequent strength workouts sounds like a 100% guaranteed recipe for catastrophically low blood sugar levels. I get hangry and stupid if I don't eat for a few hours.
To achieve hypertrophy and strength what is needed at minimum is a sensible program combined with over-time calorie surplus. 48 hour fasting is not gonna suddenly change all that.
If anything fasting increases growth hormones. In my experience it actually improves my performance (probably due to HGH increase and autophagy). Educate yourself on it instead of going by what "sounds like" or following conventional wisdom (such as "working to failure").
Lean mass % increased by 2.2% with fasting and only
0.5% with CRaP. In other words, fasting is 4 times
better at preserving lean mass. So much of that old
‘fasting burns the muscle’.
maybe it's worth checking out physical therapy as a preventative measure, like you'd get a physical exam every year at your PCP. I learned more than I cared about wrt my shoulder going to physical therapy following a rotator cuff injury.
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It's good to be thinking of this stuff though. I highly recommend Athlean-X(his free youtube videos, can't say anything about his programs) and Mark Rippetoe's Starting Strength program. Between these two, I've gotten into a little weightlifting and I'm loving it. My posture is better than it's been in 40 years.
Just do yourself a favor and go slow. Muscles adapt quickly but joints take time. Lay off the creatine until you have some experience. The 2 best supplements you can take are protein and sleep. Don't forget to hydrate and don't overtrain.
If you get a trainer, get a good one. I got a bro who encouraged me to go too far too fast and now I've got a messed up shoulder. Done properly, weightlifting is one of the safest sports.
If you're a keyboard jockey like me, chances are you have weak external rotator cuff muscles, weak serratus anterior muscles, and tight pec minors. Look into correcting all of that first, before you start shredding your shoulder joint with bench presses and bicep curls.