Put it this way: if you had put twenty quid in her hand when you sat down she would probably have instantly become the most devoted Groupon fan in the world.

* This is in London, which doesn't have the same "tipping culture" as the US. Sure hospitality jobs don't pay great, but both my wife and I have worked them in the UK and you can definitely get by without tips. Getting snippy about a drop in tips is nowhere near as justified here.

* We each bought a cocktail before ordering (£8 each x 6)

* As is becoming the norm in London, "optional 12.5% service charge" (good luck ever opting out of it though) was a separate line item on our receipt and it was calculated off of the face value.

* I specifically checked the terms of the offer and the menu options prior to buying the voucher. Despite choose from "the tapas menu" you actually get to choose from "the Groupon version of the tapas menu". The latter being about half the size.

* I left an extra tip at the end mainly because I know the economics for the merchant on running Groupon deals. In hindsight neither the service not the "special" treatment you get as a Groupon customer warranted it.

Because of their attitude I won't be back, that's the cost for making an assumption about me as a customer. I'm still undecided whether I'll use Groupon again though. Maybe seeing this insight into this restaurant was a good thing?

That's the rub, really. I find it hard to blame Groupon themselves for stuff like this (though certainly Groupon has other aspects that are complaint-worthy). If you're going to treat customers poorly because they've taken advantage of a deal, I don't really want to be your customer. And if it's such a bad deal for you, as the restaurant, why are you participating anyway? If you really feel that the extra customer acquisition is worth the lower revenue for the sale, then you should be happy when Groupon customers come in. If you don't believe it's worth it, why do a Groupon deal at all?

IMO, if a business is doing this and trying to cut costs then don't be surprised if that person does NOT convert into a regular customer. It's penny wise pound foolish.

It's obvious that people are smart enough to spot that their servings are smaller and their choices are limited compared to normal people. That angers customers! It's as bad as microwaving your food and thinking people are clueless and can't tell microwaved food from fresh food.

Sure, maybe you're saving a little here and there but you're almost guaranteeing that that person won't come back.

I went in with a Groupon and the experience was first class. Great service. They actually had one guy whose main job was to scan the Groupons. I asked him how things were businesswise with Groupon and he said really busy, but he said now that they can just scan them in, pretty easy (last round they had to look up each coupon by hand).

I of course tipped on the full amount, plus some, because the service was excellent. I liked my meal, and the wife and kids did too. We'll be back. And this is a place I may not have gone to w/o Groupon, although I had heard positive things from neighbors. But Groupon definitely got us the last mile through the door.

My feeling is that now, as a business owner that can use Google, if you don't know what you're getting into, you probably won't be business long with or w/o Groupon.

The problem is they tip on the Groupon price, not the full price, and are thus tipping something like 40% of what they should be.

"*Remember: Groupon customers tip on the full␣ amount of the pre-discounted bill (and tip␣ generously). That's why we are the coolest␣ customers out there."

In the few groupons I've used, I've tipped more than my normal 20% on the full price because I know I've saved money. Except for the one time when I encountered a waitress that acted like groupons were a hassle. It makes me think that poor tipping is exacerbated by a feedback loop: Waiters give worse service or are less enthusiastic to groupon holders, which leads the groupon holders to tip less thereby reinforcing the waiters' impression.

I am not intimately familiar with the tipping culture (at least in the US), but here are some genuine questions: Is there an inherent reason you tip on the full price? Is it a tax? If tipping is to support staff wages does that mean waiters who serve fancier higher priced food items are entitled to larger wages solely for the fact that their table happened to order a costlier meal?

Waiters in higher priced restaurants do make better tips as a consequence of this. That might matter if the culture were designed. It was not, it merely came to be.

FYI, apart from suffering social opprobrium, the big reason to always tip is that wait staff are taxed on your imputed tip whether you give it or not. This leads to compelling social justice reasons to tip even if one does not share the culture.

After 15 years of doing this (I'm from Canada, where tips aren't as proscribed, though they are still expected) I find it awkward and socially painful to pay the bill in countries in which there is not a tip expected (certain parts of Australia) - even though the locals assure me that no one will think the less of me.

In the US, if you're going to tip less than 15%, you should not tip at all. You should leave nothing and ask to speak with a manager to explain why you won't. If the failure in service doesn't rise to that level, then 15% is the minimum polite tip.

Of course, it's your wallet so do what you think is best. But this seems like a reasonable practice, so I follow it. I've actually never had to speak to a manager about service at a restaurant, though.

10% is not great, but is what senior citizens and rich politicians will leave if they tip at all.

I accidentally left a 10% tip at Fisherman's Wharf (Early on in my california experience), and was approached by the Maitre D as I was departing, asking what was wrong.

If you can't afford to tip, best just not to eat there in the first place.

...of course you either naturally think that way or it seems like an unreasonable amount of work. YMMV.

Personally, I usually take 15% and add a bit depending on how good the service was.

Servers in all proper US/Canadian restaurants have to "tip out", which means paying a percentage of what should have been their tip on any table to support staff (e.g., bartender, host, kitchen). A server can tip out as much as 5% of the pre-tax bill --- or 1/3 of the expected standard tip --- which means that if you leave them no tip, they actually have to pay to serve you.

if a restaurant runs a groupon and all grouponers tip on the post-coupon rate, the wait staff will be taking a rather large pay cut for the length of time that people are grouponing. i know i'd be grumbling if something my company did resulted in me making 50% less for a month or two.

more expensive restaurants and meals mean more expensive tips because the wait staff is more experienced, better trained, higher quality, and do more work. one person at a higher-end restaurant can give high quality service to fewer people than one person at a low-end place, and meals at a higher-end place usually take much longer. yes, the average tip is larger, but the frequency in which they receive tips is lower. yes, they make more, but not that much more.

The rules for the U.S. vary from state to state. In Oregon, where I live, wait staff make minimum wage ($8.50 per hour) and tips are added on top of that.

Not true. That's why we have federal minimum wage laws. If the wait staff are actually employed and not acting as independent contractors, then they are paid the minimum wage for their state. (Although I will grant that this being a living wage is definitely arguable.)

Edit: Correction - although not California (my state), apparently some states do allow minimum wages in the $2-3 range if employees receive tips [1]. For the downvoters, I only count about 5 states that do this, however. The original statement does not accurately reflect the majority of the U.S.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._minimum_wages

http://www.dol.gov/wb/faq26.htm

Question: Is it legal for waiters and waitresses to be paid below the minimum wage? Answer: According to the Fair Labor Standards Act, tipped employees are individuals engaged in occupations in which they customarily and regularly receive more than $30 a month in tips. The employer may consider tips as part of wages, but the employer must pay at least $2.13 an hour in direct wages. An employer may credit a portion of a tipped employee's tips against the federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour effective July 24, 2009. An employer must pay at least $2.13 per hour. However, if an employee's tips combined with the employer's wage of $2.13 per hour do not equal the hourly minimum wage, the employer is required to make up the difference. The employer who elects to use the tip credit provision must inform the employee in advance and must be able to show that the employee receives at least the applicable minimum wage (see above) when direct wages and the tip credit allowance are combined. If an employee's tips combined with the employer's direct wages of at least $2.13 an hour do not equal the minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference. Also, employees must retain all of their tips, except to the extent that they participate in a valid tip pooling or sharing arrangement.

Coming from a country with a culture of smaller tips and significantly less social pressure to give them, I usually say that I should not be forced to make up for the employer's false advertising when receiving only mediocre service. This now seems correct - not tipping wi make the employer pay the remainder, not force the waitstaff on to the streets. Right?

More here: http://www.paywizard.org/main/Minimumwageandovertime/Minimum...

if an employee doesn't at least make minimum wage after tips are considered, an employer is required by law to compensate an employee up to the point where they do make minimum wage. in theory.

in practice, this doesn't always happen.

Yes, theoretically the higher your bill the better time you are having. (Think celebratory events as opposed to a lunch break.)

Is it a tax?

No, it's gratuity. You're showing your appreciation for the staff enabling you to have the best experience possible at that time (in theory).

If tipping is to support staff wages does that mean waiters who serve fancier higher priced food items are entitled to larger wages solely for the fact that their table happened to order a costlier meal?

Serving higher priced food usually means higher caliber of customers, in the tipping sense. For example, patrons of Denny's restaurants might tip well if the coffee refills are on time, but in a finer dining establishment, for example, service requests for something off the menu (like a newspaper) would not be out of the ordinary.

Waiters at higher-priced restaurants do make considerably more. Thus those restaurants are far more selective (a lot of waiters at, say, Fridays are new to the trade, not so at Mortons) and the waiters are better. Their jobs are more time-consuming too since there are more courses, wines, they're expected to be more knowledgeable about the ever changing menu, etc.

I always tip on the full price of the meal.

^well is relative to what they expect, so this is where the quality of the restaurant is factored in by myself.

I generally only eat at small family owned joints anyway, so that helps as well.

"*Remember: Groupon customers tip on the full amount of the pre-discounted bill (and tip generously). That's why we are the coolest customers out there."

I've got no lost love for GroupOn, but this massive pile on/proof by anecdote thing is not a dignified moment for HN.

I never quite understand people who always pay 10% for service here, though. If I have received good service, I will tip perhaps 15% or more, partly to reward the good work financially and partly simply because it shows that I appreciated their efforts and encourages similar behaviour in future. Likewise, I will drop a tip to 5% or even not leave anything at all if service has been poor. In a happy coincidence, this means I tend to be regarded as a good tipper in the kind of place I want to go back to, and a poor tipper only where it doesn't matter. :-)

I also only ever tip in cash, directly into the hands of the waiting staff I've been served by. What they choose to do with it after that is up to them, but you'll never catch me adding some arbitrary amount of "service" onto a bill that's going to be paid on a card machine and go straight into the hands of the management.

More than anything else, I think the OP is complaining about restauranting with a coupon/gift card rather than utilizing Groupon, specifically. That said, he's correct that the model is broken for this very reason.

And that stinks. I was a fine dining waiter at one point in my life and lived on tips. Because of that I always tip on the full value of the meal regardless if I have a gift card or coupon.

Here in Czech republic we have local variants of Groupon and in some restaurants people reported the despise from waiters too. Surprisingly, this did not happen when we went to one that was otherwise really expensive - the people there were very nice and friendly. We won't return there regularly because it's out of our price range but for special occasions I would like to go back.

Regarding the quality - from my experience it's about 50/50, some restaurants are bad, some are ok so maybe contactdick was unlucky in encountering the wors first.

This is a massive problem for the consumer, because the promotion is for some specific food and drinks, but not for service. If the restaurant is unable to motivate the staff to like the deal, you may have to negotiate separately ("I know these deals can be a PITA, but we intend to tip on the face value of our meal"). This isn't the customer's fault, of course, and I sympathize with the OP for crossing this restaurant off his list: Why return to a restaurant that doesn't work out how to make their staff happy about the promotion?

A bigger question is whether this is an isolated incident or something to expect when dealing with similar deals. From what I know about the way small restaurants are managed, I would expect this to happen on a fairly regular basis.

One possible solution: The fine print of the deal could levy a 15% gratuity on the face value. Customers who want the freedom to tip less should exercise the freedom to pay the face value of the food and beverages. If I was offered a $100 dinner for two for $40 plus $15 mandatory gratuity, I don't think I'd bark about it.

It is to the point where most chains have a tipping system where wait staff tip out to everyone, chefs, bussers, etc so everyone gets a chip at it. If you undertip the wait staff can actually lose money.

I'm tired of being responsible for someone elses paycheck. Most restaurant waitstaff are merely ok, not amazing and not deserving of something extra, nonetheless I feel obligated to pay 15%+ anyways because of the culture.

Worse than this there are many here who despite the tipping culture feel perfectly free to never tip or undertip, leaving the rest of us to make up the difference (how do you think we go from 10% being a normal tip to 15-20%?).

It's for this reason alone and because I know most Groupon users are brutal cheapskates I will probably never take a Groupon for a restaurant. Though one persons advice to tip up front or at least let the waitstaff know you have no intention of only tipping on the remainder is valid and if you are going to get a groupon deal you'd do well to remember that.

What sucks about this whole anecdote is it means owners using Groupon are getting doubly screwed. They are getting one-timer coupon clipper who don't care about the crap service since they are never coming back anyways, and they are getting potential first customers who are not going to come back now because of the bad service. Even worse they will likely get negative word of mouth.

Of course there is a simple solution here, plan ahead and don't mistreat your staff by making them beg for tips. Personally I have zero sympathy for restaurant owners since they themselves are the ones who maintain this bullshit tipping culture.

And then I think; In almost every other profession you're expected to do your job to the best of your ability every day. Your "tip" is still being employed the following week.

I agree, I think mandatory tipping is absurd. I think people partially disassociate tip with their assessment of a restaurant's cost, so is a way for restaurants to appear cheaper. I think wait staff should perform to the best of their ability or be fired. I find it ridiculous to pay someone $1 to open a beer for me (ie. a bartender) or spend 30 seconds taking my order and then bringing my food out to me. Other times you are expected to tip maybe $1 for someone rigorously drying my car after a car wash. Seems disconnected. I hope technology helps offset this cost (automatic bartenders/ordering machines).

I'm also not sure why some restaurants have not tried to create a model of anti-tipping. I know many people that would like to go to a place that essentially says: "We pay our people well, if you feel that you have gotten a great experience, please tip by sharing us with your friends or donating to this charity."

This steak will be thirty dollars! Except it won't be, because you've got to pay tax on top of that, so it's thirty-three dollars! And then you've gotta pay an extra fifteen percent minimum on top of that, only apparently people think you're cheap if you only tip fifteen percent nowadays, and you just know you're going to be too lazy to do the maths properly so you're just gonna wind up rounding it up to forty dollars, aren't you?

On a recent trip back to Australia I did discover everything was very expensive, but at least you pay the price it says and not a penny (errr, cent) more. No mental arithmetic, no stress.

Any restaurant that treats their customers like crap because the customer uses a deal that the restaurant approved is... Well, rude. I don't have much use for rude restaurants. For a lot cheaper, I can cook the food myself, and it's probably as good. Worse, the time spent is about the same, too! And cooking can be fun.

So in the end, what does a restaurant offer me? New dishes, and good service. Most restaurants don't have the former, so that just leaves good service.

The restaurant in this post failed at the only thing they can offer their customers. And all because they made a bad decision. (I'm assuming they think it's bad because of their actions.)

I'm not a Groupon apologist. Some of the tactics I've heard lately are downright dirty, and detrimental to both the restaurant and Groupon both. But it's not inherently a bad thing.

The restaurant business is not exactly raking in the big bucks right now, with the continuing (and deepening) recession, and the owners may have signed on in desperation to claw out whatever money they can.

It's quite possible that they give excellent service when the customer is not using a coupon. But I'm guessing you'll never know because of how they treated you. Even if you aren't their target market (because of the cost and driving distance, etc) it's possible that you would take someone there for a business deal or date because you remembered how nice it was. (Nevermind the outside.)

They defeated the whole point of groupon: To attract new customers.

Instead, they are actively pushing them away.

If the restaurant would have treated the customers like all the other guests and maybe let them order the more expensive bottle of wine while explaining that it's actually not included (with a smile!) those two guys would have walked out happy and would probably have returned.

Groupon and the other coupon sites is a marketing expense, so treat it like one. You don't put up ads in the magazine with a discount and then scare away the customers when they show up! I don't defend the coupon sites, they seem to take a whole lot of the money for a small benefit. However, if you go into the deal, you might as well make the best of it. They will use the groupon no matter if you're nice or not.

1. An offer for "Pay $X for $Y of Z" have at least anecdotally led to people spending $X+(small number) where a lot of those who offer such deals are expecting more (the Gap was a notable example of this). Perhaps a better model is a capped percentage discount on the bill?

2. Evolving social etiquette of tipping. It may simply be that people are unaware that the right thing to do is probably to tip on the undiscounted price. Or it may simply be that those who are inclined to use Groupons are simply cheap. I expect it's a little of both;

3. No caps on offers is a big problem. It means businesses can't budget what are basically marketing expenses. For this to work you need to be able to track individual offers (so a person can't use the same offer twice). This has the added advantage of you being able to mine this data as you know who used an offer, when they did, what they spent, what other offers they've taken and so on;

4. Businesses seem to resent people using these coupons. This I don't get (other than the complaints of wait staff). It's a marketing expense. If a Coolhaus truck can sit a block away from my office in downtown Manhattan giving out free ice cream sandwiches for several days (raising awareness and creating a lot of good will) then you, as a business, owe yourself this: leave the customer happy. If they're unhappy you've just wasted your marketing spend on them; and

5. Having to ask for the offer upfront is BAD. It's awkward. It leads to at least the suspicion of getting smaller portions or otherwise getting the cheap version. It probably means you'll get worse service. The offer should simply be X% off a bill (max value $Y). Exclude alcohol entirely.

Honestly I expect Groupon to sink into the ocean. Businesses don't seem to like it. Consumers are having mixed experiences. The early investors have been paid off with large F/G rounds. Revenue per customer is decreasing. What Groupon is doing isn't exactly rocket science. I kinda see small investors being left with the bill for all this post-IPO.

It's a shame really because I see such things as a great way to promote a restaurant (which is actually hard).

These deals are reasonable to offer if your overhead is more than your incremental costs, for instance. Or if the look of a full restaurant (and thus the vibe) is more important than making money off of those initial customers.

The joke is groupon taking so much for brokering this. Groupon doesn't do anything to warrant $1 per coupon, let alone 1/4 the face value. If it takes off it'll be on ad-driven sites taking no or very little cut, and/or via the restaurants' websites and facebook pages directly.

The comments on the deal were nearly universally from people who had purchased the first coupon, and when they tried to redeem them staff at the restaurant treated them like lepers.

I've only bought and used one restaurant Groupon and honestly I didn't really had a problem. Then again I didn't show it until it was time to pay (are you supposed to show it when you order?). It was a $15 coupon and we used it to cover part of a $50 tab for dessert and drinks. I imagine that was probably not the norm, and they likely more often see people who spend only $14 and ask if they can have a dollar in change.

That said, would you consider going back after the groupon deal, just on a purely scientific basis, to see what you'd rate it at based off a clean slate? I'm mildly curious about the actual differences when the place actually wants you there, as opposed to "handling" you.

£69.95 instead of £239.00 - Classic Black Pentax I-10 Digital Camera with Kodak Portable Charger at Teqport

A quick search on Amazon shows it available at £74.98.

Which is strange considering that people tip for good/professional service. Maybe there is a self-fulfilling prophecy somewhere in there :)

Groupon is for the most part the small business equivalent of Pets.com losing a buck on every sale and making it up on volume. Anyone who has been in the business for more than five minutes knows that voucher customers convert very poorly to regulars. Given the size of the discount and Groupon's cut, there's no way that this restaurant could be profitably converting, particularly if they're making no effort at all to do so.

Badly run businesses are badly run; Film at eleven.

I am constantly depressed by the high ratings that establishments receive on sites like Yelp and Urban Spoon only to go in and find that they are average at best. I have been to places with 95% positive ratings on Urban Spoon and walked away very disappointed in the quality of the food. I have seen fast food restaurants like KFC and Taco Bell with 9x% ratings on Urban Spoon. Meanwhile I have went to places with a 60% to 70% rating and the food has been out of this world.

When those sites where small, unknown and mainly frequented by foodies, it seemed like the quality of the ratings where much better, now they are little guarantee of quality. Now days, I really only use them to tell me what is around and to weed out the really bad joints. If a place is below 50% positive review I avoid it above it and it is a crap shoot.

The problem is people go out for dining experiences for a variety of reasons and they rate a restaurant for all those varieties. Being a foodie, I could care less about anything but the taste of the food. If it has the explosion of flavor I am looking for, I don't care if I am eating it on a paper plate in a plastic chair. Ambiance has no value to me where others it does. The demeanor of the wait staff has no value to me (other than the amount they will be tipped) where others it does.

They really need multiple flags on these sites so that people can rate the different aspects accordingly (I have not been on Yelp in a log time, so forgive me if this has been done). For me the only flag that counts is quality of food the rest of the weight being put into the positive and negative rating is just noise for me. While others may value something totally different and want to see the ratings weighted based on that.

These sites are a great start, but they have a long way to go, before that can seat you at the table you want to be at, with any degree of accuracy. The only value I have found is that they prevent you from ending up in a place that is really really bad. Then again Taco Bell has 9x% rating in my town, so even that is not a guarantee.

True, the Michelin places don't come right at the top, but I'd defend most of the places that do come higher up as offering as good a dining experience considering price and variable taste. Sometimes (often) you're just not in the mood for a £200 tasting menu.

Some people will always knock down any place, no matter how good the food is, on price alone. That 5-star french place? Terrible! They charged $8 for a side of something!

You learn who reviewing you can trust and who you can't. I've recently moved to Columbus Ohio and I've found that people here have no taste for Sushi. You could take some gum off your shoe, put it on some rice and they'd think it was good and exotic. Places that have solid 4-star reviews here for sushi taste worse than stuff I'd get from random Trader Joe's in Boston that had been sitting there for 2 days.

So it goes both ways. I generally look for things about the service (a big one to me, and something that this down just doesn't know anything about either it seems), plus a little about the food quality. I wish it was the other way, but generally except for the basic description of their varieties and pricing I can't trust the reviews.

Also, keep in mind that the ratings are based on the complete experience not just the food. If someone had great food but a bad experience with the waiter, they may have no problems leaving 1 or 2 stars. Crap food with awesome service could get 4 stars.

It's Yelp, not Zagat or Michelin. If you use it appropriately, it will work for you.

The other visits were pleasant or at least we had no complaints afterwards. We DID go back to some of the restaurants (even without coupons) and recommended some to friends. Some others aren't really nearby, so we might not visit them again, but I'd recommend them as well.

However, I first google for reviews of the restaurants/companies before buying a deal. I'd not buy a deal for a restaurant with no or only mediocre reviews. And I present my coupon before ordering - that would have saved you from the bad experience with the first bottle of wine.

Of course, it greatly depends on the restaurant. If they don't plan the Groupon project, they may get overrun shortly after the deal. And the tip problem is already mentioned - so staff isn't always glad about "deals customers." I've even heard discussions with "deals customers" on a neighbor table that insisted of getting money back because their bill was lower than the deal.

Worst I experienced was not with a restaurant but a deal for a walking tour. The company was totally overbooked, promised to provide more dates for tours, but never delivered. Even 6 weeks after the deal, customer service turned out to be great and refunded the deal promptly.

A friend of mine bought a deal from a small photo studio (90% discount) - and yet (about 5 months after the deal) waits for a confirmation for an appointment: "We are fully booked until at least end of next month." Hopefully, the studio will be still in business at the time he gets an appointment (or he gets a full refund).

Its not Groupon or Daily Deal to blame for bad experience, but the business owner. But due to the growing popularity of the deals, places are more likely to get crowded after a deal. And because Groupon and co think that "the more, the better", they approach businesses as well that don't deliver great service all the time or are just unable to handle the amount of deals sold.

We had a situation earlier this year with a voucher where the terms were not fully explained, we went to Manchester (England) and sat down in a restaurant called Giraffes. The voucher did not explain that it could not be used before 7pm. It was 1 in the afternoon, I sat there regardless and continued to be ripped out (£8.50 for a breakfast, cheapest thing on menu) and in total paid £40 for some dinner.

In terms of tipping, I generally leave a tip if around 10%, more if the person waiting is really good and a good personality, less if I think they are over acting it to get a higher tip. They don't get anything if the food is crap or over priced. I don't think I have been anywhere recently where I have not used a voucher or coupon, it's not because I am tight, it's simply because they are there. I don't consider myself a bad tipper either.

I know what you mean though about feeling bad about using vouchers or coupons, I feel slightly guilty about it. I think the English culture is slightly different though, I think we don't like confrontation and I feel this goes into that realm.

Stick to voucher cloud, check the terms though properly before sitting down!

I guess that's me though, everyone is different. I have been stung too many times in the past with bad meals and I am probably the fussiest customer you will find. If I had been going to a place for years and they started serving bad meals, I wouldn't think twice about not going there again. I don't generally complain about a meal, not going there again is good enough for me.

I like the insight into the Groupon experience as a whole though, this is probably what would happen to me so I'm glad I had never taken the plunge.

However, they may be too busy preparing for IPO so the investors "get paid".

>Bad restaurants use Groupon because they have to - and any place that can discount so much for their customers makes me question how ridiculous their prices are to start.

In my experience, the restaurants that use Groupon are mediocre to good. Maybe it's a regional thing, but there are so many restaurants here that even many good restaurants aren't very busy.

that's why pretty much the only coupon I ever bought was for Amazon.=

For a restaurant, what will cause people to come back is quality & service - so if you are outlaying cash (via discounts) to gain customers, you would think you would go out of your way to gain a repeat customer.

Perhaps this is more of an education for the wait staff, and perhaps the restaurant owners should realize the people using a coupon may not tip well, and make up some of the difference for the wait staff - and emphasis the importance of converting them through service & quality to be repeat customers.

Otherwise - why would the owners do the Groupon at all?

And 2) Groupon isn't just for restaurants... If it were then it'd be out of business already. I've gotten Lasik for much cheaper via Groupon and also teeth whitening.

It just so happens that restaurants try Groupons because they're already battling the odds for staying in business.

And seriously, isn't this over 9000 times more effective than burning money on flyers or a commercial? It gets them INTO the restaurant. From there it depends on the restaurant to bring them back in a 2nd time with charm and great food.

So instead of blaming gift cards, coupons or even Groupons, blame management for not using Excel and the staff for not charming potential customers.

A friend of mine who owns a beauty salon says Scoopon worked with her to ensure they have capacity to serve the customers they're predicted to get.

P.S: The reason I don't usually tip (in Australia) > we have a minimum wage for wait staff that, on Sundays and public holidays at least, is often higher than my hourly rate on a professional salary.

1) I used a Groupon at a korean restaurant in Cambridge, MA. When I went with my friend the waitress was delighted, but once I mentioned the Groupon her enthusiasm completely faded and she became much more rude.

2) I used another restaurant Groupon at a pizza place on Newbury St. in Boston, MA. Ordered the pizza but once I pulled out the Groupon she had a sour look.

I don't understand why these friggin' business do Groupon if they are just going to assholes. Argh, just reminiscing and writing about these experiences pisses me off.

Unless that policy isn't in place for Groupon in the UK?

http://www.groupon.com/groupon-promise

I do think that if the point of the coupon is to attract new customers, then it is extremely counterproductive and foolish to hide the conditions of the coupon so that people are disappointed, and to treat customers badly for using it. That's just bad management.

Consumers who are willing to pay $ for something are not going to be repeat customers who will then pay $$$ for the same thing.

It's a modified pyramid scheme, the only people that benefit are consumers and Groupon it self, even though they are losing money out of their asses.

I've read somewhere of people buying discount coupons for services like haircuts or aesthetics, only to find that when they call for an appointment, couponers have longer waits than non-couponers for scheduling. That alone makes me uneasy.

We had a $20 for $40 deal at a restaurant owned by a local restauranteur. There were no restrictions other than that the Groupon couldn't be used for the tip, which, on the Groupon indicated that the tip should be made against the total bill because "groupon customers are good tippers" or something like that, I found that statement kinda silly, and I just thought it was common knowledge in the US that you always tip on the pre-discount price.

The place had piqued my interest because it was nearby and it wasn't a chain nor did it appear to be owned by one of the larger businesses that plant unique, but rather predictable, restaurants. That's unusual around here.

There were little/no reviews of this place on Yelp and I can say with certainty that there is no way I would have tried this place at this time were it not for the Groupon. The restaurant was "new", which usually equates to a long line and an unprepared kitchen staff. I have children, and frankly, when there's an opportunity to take my bride out for a night on the town, I'm going to go someplace that I know will be good. Nothing is worse than setting up a date, a baby-sitter, and then getting crappy food/service and overpaying for it. Because of said baby-sitting fees, I also won't venture to a place that's far away. I'd rather spend the money on the meal, not the college kid who sits on my couch and watches TV while the kids sleep.

This place ended up being fantastic. It was also inexpensive even without the Groupon. So to point #1: The only reason I went was because of the discount, but point #2, we've already been back once and even later purchased a $50 gift card for my dad on Father's day. I think a lot of the issues with point #2 have to do with the small business in question. We didn't have any limited "Groupon" menu (and I wouldn't buy a deal that's structured that way ... there would be too much of a temptation for the owner to cheapen it up if they were having a bad Groupon experience), nor were there any alcohol limits (which is really common).

Groupon worked great, at least for me, in discovering a new local business. We're planning yet another trip back in two weeks. My bride and I both wrote a thorough Yelp review afterward, we liked the place so much. Is it a good value for that business or would that money have been better spent advertising in other ways? I have no idea/that probably depends on the business. If he's got the working capital to run at a loss for 6 months, I'm willing to bet this place sticks around, provided the food quality doesn't change (the price could go up substantially, and I'd still continue to eat there).

I see several things...

1. Businesses are not empowered the IT system of groupon should take the grudge work out of tracking groupon deals, educating those who get a groupon offer for business, etc. 2. The group IT system should empower the sales staff to be as flexible as possible in groupon deal runs.

I see is a combination of IT improvements and realizing that you are educating 3 or more distinct group s at once and the IT system has empower that approach.

Whoever, does that will at some point reach the efficiencies Groupon needs to reach to reach profitability as being more effective will all 3 groups means less salesperson time per salesperson per group.

the main aim of the waitresses and cooks would be to get the Groupon people - meaning - everybody - out of the restaurant as soon as possible - that goes against all principles of running restaurant business ..

Speaking from experience, a meal at a good, appropriately-priced tapas place should cost the same or slightly less than a meal at a regular three-course restaurant, and should offer what seems like an endless stream of food!

You know wait staff live on tips right? You know that people who use coupons are notoriously bad tippers right? There are very, very few people who feel they got a deal so leave a bigger tip. Most leave a tip based on what they paid, not on what the meal should have cost and people that use coupons tip at the bottom of the scale to begin with.

This seems counterintuitive.

Worse, it creates the results expected, reinforcing the bias, leading to more bad service because the worst suspicions have been "confirmed."

Now everyone is screwed.

If you expect someone to tip poorly, so you give them poor service, of course they are going to tip poorly!