Bread provides additional quality nutrition, compared to straight sugar. That's my point. Not every foodstuff needs to be nutritionally complete and macro nutrient balanced.
> keto diet is widely acknowledged to be a bad choice
"Keto Is Ranked the Worst Diet by Health Experts"
are those the same "experts" that have been recommending people to reduce their fat intake for the last 4 decades, effectively increasing sugar consumption and being responbsible for literally millions of dead people around the world?
The overall consensus used to be that fat was bad, but science has advanced and our view on the subject is a lot more nuanced than "fat bad". Clinical dieticians and other experts have updated their recommendations accordingly. That's how science works, we continually improve our collective knowledge.
Going completely off the rails and jumping on fad diets instead is not a wise choice.
The current recommendation of a diet heavy in plants, low in saturated fat, moderate in carbs (complex carbs, ditch the simple ones) is perfectly sound, a good average diet for the average person.
> Going completely off the rails and jumping on fad diets instead is not a wise choice
it seems your opinion on how to tell which diet is fad is based not on research but on a quick google search. inform yourself on the topic, then we can argue.
> The current recommendation of a diet heavy in plants, low in saturated fat, moderate in carbs (complex carbs, ditch the simple ones) is perfectly sound, a good average diet for the average person
except none of what you said makes the keto diet bad. i can grant you that it's not recommended for average person mainly because it requires a lot of knowledge and discipline to be following properly, but the rest is bs.
Keto is definitely a fad diet, same as Atkins, paleo and a ton of others.
I'm deep in the crossfit world, and I definitely did look at keto and paleo, before an actual dietician talked some sense into me.
Ketosis is a medical condition that is potentially harmful and even deadly in some cases. You absolutely should not go into ketosis without qualified medical assistance.
If you’re going to make a blanket statement like this, would you also provide the definitions you’re working with? Ketosis (not to be confused with ketoacidosis) is a metabolic cycle. Paleo is a diet which, while having no completely agreed upon definition that I’m aware of, often focuses on limiting grain-based sources of carbohydrates. If your definition of “overeating protein” is based on a ratio of macronutrients, that’s something that can be usefully discussed; similarly if you’re referring to some quantity of protein. As it is, you’ve stated something which really isn’t helpful in moving discussion forward.
just as i said - inform yourself on the topic, come arguing later. you have no idea what you're talking about.
just to not leave you completely uninformed - general guideline for protein on keto is 1g per kilogram of bodyweight. i really want to see how will you argue that that is "overeating protein", especially considering that you're "deep in crossfit world".
I would have something to say if you came with actual data. I've provided expert opinions that keto and Paleo are objectively bad. You've provided nothing but emotional arguments and pseudoscience.
> I would have something to say if you came with actual data.
the actual data is that protein consumption on keto is 1g per kilogram of bodyweight.
the question is why do you think that is "overeating protein", and if you don't - you're obviously thinking of a different number and the question becomes what it is and where did you get that number?
> expert opinions that keto and Paleo are objectively bad
expert opinion is by definition not objective, it's an opinion. you haven't even provided any evidence that keto is "bad". from everything you've said the only conclusion i can make is that you have no idea what keto is at all.
The only positive thing keto does (as a side effect) is cut down on simple sugars. Everything else is counterproductive at best.
You're putting your body in an emergency state and stressing your overall health. It can work short term, if you're conscious of the dangers (especially ketoacidosis), but it absolutely shouldn't be done on the long term, unless you have a very specific medical need (such as epilepsy).
And as always, short term diets are silly and can cause more harm than good. Long term lifestyle change is what is actually needed, not short term fad diets.
so still no comment on protein? unless we get to the bottom of this, everything you're saying about keto comes with a huge blinking neon sign "HAS NO IDEA WHAT KETO IS"?
> emergency state
nope. it's a state our bodies have evolved to survive in. there is no scientific evidence that ketosis is harmful.
> if you're conscious of the dangers (especially ketoacidosis)
> Long term lifestyle change is what is actually needed, not short term fad diets
totally agree. the difference is that i know that keto is a valid long term lifestyle and there is no evidence of it being harmful, while the benefits i observe every day.
I'm advocating for a healthy, balanced diet as part of a healthy, balanced lifestyle. "Eat food, mostly plants, not too much", and cut out those simple sugars and processed foods. Simple as that.
No fads, just a basic long term lifestyle change that works, without buzzwords, without fancy diets, without expensive books or courses or gurus.
And without the risks associated with ketogenic diets:
retrospective study of epilepsy patients treated with the KD during 1995 through 2003 at the Korean multicenters
Conclusions: The KD is a safe and effective alternative therapy for intractable childhood epilepsy in Korea, although the customary diet contains substantially less fat than traditional Western diets, but life-threatening complications should be monitored closely during follow-up.
evaluate the efficacy and safety of the ketogenic diet (KD) treatment of refractory childhood epilepsy
Conclusions The KD is a safe and efficacious therapy for intractable childhood epilepsy in Chinese children. The influence of age on efficacy is worth further investigation.
do you spot the similarities? all those are reports about patients with epilepsy/seizures. some had complications. for most KD was effective in reducing seizures.
making any implications from that data about effects on healthy individuals is ridiculous FUD.
Listen, I'm not going to stop you from keto or paleo or homeopathy or any other wild idea.
Just be aware that the claimed scientific proof for its effectiveness is shaky at best, and there are definite dangers, which is why a medical professional should be consulted before starting.
It may be fine for you, but you are not everyone.
There is a hell of a lot of Dunning-Kruger effect going on in nerd circles, where high technical skill in one area is mistakenly believed to mean equal mastery in all other subjects. In this case it is nutrition, where a group of people have decided that they've "cracked the metabolism's secrets", "dieticians hate this one easy trick!"-style. It doesn't work that way, though. There are no easy shortcuts to weight loss and health, no matter how you stress your metabolism.
Health is simple, but it is not easy.
Dollars to donuts (ha!) your overall increase in health happened because you now look at lot more carefully at what you eat, plus cut out simple sugars completely. That is a very good lifestyle change, and enough to make up for the negatives of ketogenic diets, giving a net positive.
yeah, for kids with epilepsy. still best treatment so far even despite complications.
none of this allows you to make any conclusions about harmful effects on healthy individuals.
> In this case it is nutrition, where a group of people have decided that they've "cracked the metabolism's secrets", "dieticians hate this one easy trick!"-style. It doesn't work that way, though. There are no easy shortcuts to weight loss and health, no matter how you stress your metabolism.
you're still in the mindset that keto is short term fat loss fad diet. it isn't, it's a longterm lifestyle change.
> That is a very good lifestyle change, and enough to make up for the negatives of ketogenic diets
of which you have yet to show any evidence.
this whole thread is you reiterating the same crap and me constantly asking to back it up with some evidence. it's getting tiresome.
This is a bullshit link if I ever saw one... I mean of course the Department of Agriculture will recommend a high carb diet, given that they are mostly concerned for an agricultural sector that produces corn and other grains en masse...
Yes, absolutely. No one is arguing against that. But it's still less bad than straight sugar.
I live near an amazing bakery that does good sourdough bread with plenty of seeds, and I bake my own sourdough whole grain breads. The proximity of a good bakery and stores where I can buy good flour will seriously affect where I will even consider buying a house next time.
I buy meat, fish, vegetables, fruits and I have a nice diet without counting calories or other nutrients. I avoid ultra-processed foods, I may have a few of them on weekends.
I've had 2 blood analysis, one at the beginning of my new diet (and lifestyle) and the other one 6 months later. All perfect.
I just eat carbs for lunch and that's because I'm looking to lose weight. If I wouldn't want to lose weight I would just look at how reasonable are the quantities I eat. There's no need to be maniac at what you eat if what you eat is healthy and natural.
It seems like the food industry has made us forget how to eat properly, and that's normal because they influence us since we are kids (even babies).
The keto diet is widely acknowledged to be a bad choice. Here's just one summary: https://www.thedailymeal.com/healthy-eating/keto-ranked-wors...
Keto diets are useful as medical tools, but they absolutely should not be used generally by otherwise healthy people.