I recognize I'm in this situation, but I have no idea what one could do to make a life meaningful, outside of good work or raising great kids, hopefully with a loving partner. I have already tried many things: Living in 3 other countries for 4 years in total (but I was missing family and friends support), being self-employed (I do B2B software like P.McKenzie), learning to dance (3 times, but I feel crap at it), music, judo, hundreds hours of volunteering (social, like activities for kids or refugees or mid-suburbs, or climate) but at one point it feels like cheap exploitation of underpaid workers, ... My sister climbs summits or goes to the end of herself (6000km biking anyone?) but I don't see the point. Those experiences never made me feel happy or fulfilled with my life (I'm 33). Only having a girlfriend once fulfilled me (until she dumped me like "you don't have leadership with your life") but you didn't count "partner" among things that fulfill your free time, did you? Let's be honest, I find life a bit boring ;) So what do you mean with "structure and accomplishment"? Do you have examples?
> Only having a girlfriend once fulfilled me (until she dumped me like "you don't have leadership with your life") but you didn't count "partner" among things that fulfill your free time, did you?
Please don't try to find this there. It makes you dependant on a person which isn't healthy for both of you and you are not going to find this idealised love in a relationship.
The main reasons that I see for men slowly losing their social life is because of work and obsessive fixation on a relationship.
I'm not saying don't have a relationship because it's great, it's just that I don't believe it should ever be the sole purpose of your life.
> So what do you mean with "structure and accomplishment"? Do you have examples?
For me at least this is having a great social network of friends. The fact that there's every day something to do for me outside of work together with friends. That's at least what I've been focusing on.
I'm in a happy relationship but I'm not going to give up my social life for her as so many of my friends did.
If you don't have a decent social network by the time you've left university (or if you lose it, e.g. by moving), it's hard to build one.
You can meet people here and there by going to Meetups and whatnot, but it's hard to go beyond casual acquaintance. You can't ask the same person to hang out too often, or you start seeming desperate and they will value your time and your friendship less.
And a bunch of one-to-one connection don't work, you need to build an interconnected network. But if you already had a nice group of people to connect newcomers to, you wouldn't have the problem in the first place. If you're lucky, you'll make one acquaintance that will pull you into their own social network, but that's not easy. If it's a network of people who have all known each other for a while, you'll always be the outsider.
If you want to try to put a network together yourself, you need to organize activities where strangers (your individual acquaintances) can meet and start forming connections. But it's pretty hard to get several people together at once. If you want to go to some event, you need to find something that everyone will like. And even then, it needs to be repeatable. You need to get your friends to meet several times, so one-off events, like a festival, won't work.
The best option, in my experience, is a house party. Everyone likes that, and you can have it however many times you like... provided you have a house where you can host people. In some areas, such as S-fucking-F, this is hard and/or very expensive.
And of course, you need to be the sort of person who can act as the hub of a social network. If you're introverted, you probably don't have the right skills.
If you can't be the hub yourself, your best bet is to befriend someone who can be the hub, so they'll build a social network that includes you. But if that person has been around a while, you're back to the outsider problem. They already have a network, and it doesn't include you. If you find someone who has hub-skills and is new in town, you may have struck gold. Of course, their social network will start to fall apart once they leave town.
One somewhat extreme yet effective solution to this is to get into situations where no one knows anyone and where there is some shared hardship involved.
We did this by moving to another country where there was limited potential to really integrate into the local community (Thailand).
Because expats existed in their own little community and everyone walked off the plane knowing no one all the new comers are extremely open to forming new friendships. At to this that moving to another country is a challenging experience which you are going through together and there is a very high potential for making a whole new group of friends.
The only similar equivalent I can imagine would be something like joining the military. Everyone shows up knowing no one then they all undergo a series of challenging experiences together. It is not surprising that some military people seem to form lifelong bonds with their peers.
Meanwhile if you stay wherever you usually live, an environment relatively lacking in hardship where everyone else has at least a semblance of an existing social network, making a whole new social network is extremely tough.
I hope it works out for everyone but imho it is very dangerous.
If I did this and the relationship ends 20 years from now I could find myself being an old guy without any friends and then it's harder (but still possible) to find new friends. (because you get rusty when you didn't do this kind of thing for decades)
I can definitely see why some people then choose to sit in front of a TV all day, because with your friends probably also a lot of the activities and hobbies you once enjoyed are gone.
I too don't feel having a partner and a family is enough for me to consider life fulfilling. For me a more meaningful life would also include doing more programming - but on a projects that I believe in, instead of ones I get assigned by my employers. It would also include a lot of what you'd call hard work in other domains, like electronics, chemistry, etc. - but again, self-directed, and for things that I care about.
Basically, I have shit ton of projects, ideas how to improve things for myself and people around me, that I don't have time to pursue because of $dayjob and $obligations. And I guess one could summarize it with one word - autonomy. This is something that I think leads to a more fulfilling life.
I'm like you, but I'm 30 and don't want a family or kids. And travel sounds incredibly boring.
I've been investing 90% of my income the past five years. When the article or any coworker says "enjoy your hard earned money" it makes no sense to me. What does spending money have to do with happiness?
And yet, more money is all I want. If you gave me a billion dollars tomorrow my first thought would be "how do I turn that into two billion?"
I might become a monk. Serious. Ever thought of that?
There are some studies out there (too lazy now to go search for any) that mentions that money is related to hapiness up to a point that it can get you out of poverty and make you stop thinking about it.. Then, the relation is mostly none.
Seriously, what would you do with those 2 billion?
That research has been called into question [0]. In my opinion it's like anything else...there is no absolute answer. Some people will be happier with more money. Some won't.
I might recommend you start Qi-Gong, or some authentic energy manipulation art. After 20 years of practicing or so (If one has a good teacher/school), things can get pretty interesting internally. This type of hobby is a prerequisite for shaolin monks who want to go further into the depths of zen meditation. (which would be quite dangerous at advanced levels without qi-gong allowing them to control their internal organizational cell energy (or Qi/Prana in Asian terms))
Yes. I'm insecure about myself and I feel like having a lot of money might solve the issue. At least let me walk around confidently, comfortable in my own skin. At least, that's the hypothesis.
one advice - take a backpack, turn off your phone and go around india for couple of months, low key, low budget. either himalaya, or south, or anything in between (varanasi can be a powerful experience). it changed my life for better, much better, and so did for many more people. It doesn't have to be india per se, but it's the most exotic place to western culture out there and supremely huge.
if you look for some enlightenment from behind the keyboard, there will be none.
(on personal level, mountains and travelling to them & around did it for me. it takes time to be in shape to enjoy them and not only suffer up & down, but it's well worth it. most intense moments of my life happened this way. i will die with a smile on my face for having a privilege to experience them)
It's a good advice, but not everyone needs to run away from something. Sometimes we just have to face ourselves and do a deep introspection on our lives.. I, for myself, find it really hard sometimes to know how I should run my life, or what are my goals. Maybe sometimes there isn't any need to have goals, or maybe my goal is to accomplish every goal so that I empty my goal bucket..
Whatever, I think each one of us are mostly giving bad advices to each other, and the truth is that almost no one knows with certainty what we're doing with our lifes. We just go with the tide, turning left or right when things seems to match what we think we want..
it was never about running away from anything, I was coming back in 3 months to things and people I left there. It was about adventure, exposing yourself to new situations, cultures, people, everything. every single day. it gives you huge amount of time to see yourself, introspect, experience yourself in all kinds of crazy conditions, and discover that we humans are amazing, strong beings if we try a bit.
also that monetary wealth and happiness are almost mutually exclusive, but that's another topic :)
as for those goals - while hiking in nepal around annapurna, i met american guy, great fella, who unknowingly changed course of my life in many ways. planted some sort of idea-seed in my head. never expected anything like that to happen, there or anywhere. best thing in my life. but for this, you cannot plan nor prepare. for sure, it won't happen while staying at home.
It's novel but it's an ephemeral novelty. It disappears as soon as you're home and back in your old ways. Better to understand the internal source of dissatisfaction and address it directly.
If life is truly boring and you seek "meaning" then your suggestion, "raising great kids", is the path to take.
Picking up that first little bundle in your hands sets off neurons that lay latent for decades awaiting the moment and which instantaneously rewire your brain to protect/foster. If you had control before that moment, you certainly don't after. And you'll have more "meaning" than you can handle.
Bad news: you'll _worry_ about them until you die - retirement will be the _least_ of your concerns.
P.S. Mormon girls are smart, friendly, usually very healthy and most of them believe that children are a good thing.
> I have no idea what one could do to make a life meaningful, outside of good work or raising great kids
But isn't that meaningful enough? Having one's own kids is great and very fullfiling, and having good work can be as well (although not as much as having kids, imho).
I have an anecdote about my experience not working for a long period of time. Sounds like I'm in quite a different place in my life to you but I hope you don't mind me sharing and maybe there might be some part of it that is useful. :)
I just spent a year on maternity leave when my second child was born in May last year and headed back to the office in April this year. I'm a software developer for a medium sized team.
Adjusting to not being at work was quite difficult for about the first four months, particularly towards the end of the fourth month where the novelty had worn off but I hadn't really figured it out yet.
Because it was my second leave, I knew that to be content I would have to work through my feelings around my identity without work. It was both difficult and freeing to rediscover myself outside of the pressures of work. I personally felt a little bit afraid that there wouldn't be much left (kind of sad, I know), but I tried to just stay patient with my feelings. I feel like my identity now is more grounded. It was interesting that actually most of the things I value about myself didn't really change. One less thing to feel irrationally afraid of, I guess. :)
With a toddler and a baby at home, I didn't have trouble filling my days, but I thought a lot about how I could best enjoy the time. My goal was just to feel content, not necessarily happy or fulfilled.
The best thing was spending time with my local mum friends. The kids and I would meet up with our friends during the day at least three times a week. I think having a strong, available local network was really important for feeling connected and staying sane.
I joined a local charity for supporting families with babies and ran a group for parents with new babies. It was lovely doing something I felt very passionate about that made the world a tiny bit better. It was kind of nice to be able to use my organisational skills to get it all up and running. A slightly surprising (to me) result was it expanded my social network quite a lot.
I worked on a personal programming project. With all the other things going on, I really needed something just for myself and to work my brain in that way. I would really look forward to the middle of the day when both my kids were resting.
At around four months, we all fell into a fairly comfortable routine. Our days had a fairly standard rhythm and we had regular playdates and play groups to break up the week. The weeks actually started to pass quite quickly at that point.
I feel quite proud that I learnt to live at a slower pace. I miss being able to walk the buggy up to the park just because the day is sunny. It felt quite luxurious to be able to spend as long as I (or my kids) wanted on things, to choose what I was going to do with my day and to not be on a timetable.
I was kind of ready to come back to work after my time was up (small kids are physically and emotionally demanding!), but I was really glad to have the experience. I think in an ideal world, I'd have a career break every five years. It was such a wonderful way to unwind and get some perspective on things.
Err... but I'm a man. Although you'll find counter-examples, spending time with local mum friends won't do it as a man, I already can't count how many sexist jokes I get from girls every time I cook. Also, you describe a lifestyle where you don't have to bring money back home: No wonder you like it. Should I suppose you had a boyfriend working?
So, no, sorry, I can't make a baby and get 4 months of holidays, and my girlfriend is not going to pay for my lifestyle.
It's quite a mistake to show off to a man about things they can't have, especially things that are invoiced to men (such as the lady's free meal).
