>“You go from working 50, 60, 70 hours a week to zero,” Moen says. “And it very much affects your identity. Who am I? For men, the answer usually is their job.”
I feel like this is a problem our whole life however it is only once we retire that we are forced to confront it. Until then we are able to avoid dealing with a lack of fulfilling activities outside of work, limited social connections and a weak sense of identity outside of work by simply working more. When we retire that coping mechanism goes away and you are left with no hobbies, a weak social network and a weak self image.
Personally, I strongly recommend trying cutting your work commitments to something like 20 hours per week. Do this for a year or so. It will give you a chance to realize that many of the things you previously did whenever you got the chance (sleeping in etc) become extremely boring when you can do them all the time.
After a while you will likely start to crave some sense of structure and accomplishment and the sooner you start filling the void outside of your work the better. Having a meaningful existence outside of your job will make you happier both now and in retirement.
I think this is why it's good to work for an employer who supports open source.
You don't want the entire value of your work and your social connections to be abruptly cut off once you leave the company. I saw this happen to both my parents. My dad was forced to retire at 53 and the value of his work was locked up inside that company (he worked there for over 20 years, so your skills develop in a bubble).
For the last year and a half, I've been working on open source sponsored by the company. (I've worked on open source since 2009, but this is the first time I've been paid for it.) Even though it's mostly "our" project, there are enough outsiders lurking / paying attention I know that if I were to leave the company, I might have some opportunities or people to reach out to, or even just people to talk to about technical topics.
Some of the proprietary software I've worked on has been very interesting, important, and technically sophisticated... but I know that once I leave the company, its value is drastically decreased. Basically you have to build up that value "from scratch" again, whereas open source can be forked, modified, combined, etc.
I have also been employed to work on open source software. I actually didn't really think of it until now but it is nice to still see stuff going on in the project. I am still on some mailing lists plus I get notifications of tickets I previously touched being modified, commented on, resolved. It is also still quite within my capabilities to jump on and fix the occasional bug if I so desire, or just provide some thoughts on issues others are working through.
As you mention, the proprietary software companies I have worked for are very different. By close of business on your final day you are locked out of everything.
> your social connections to be abruptly cut off once you leave the company.
I work for a company that fosters a community of our company alumni. Mostly by having a side chat alongside the main company chats, and arranging alumni meetings every now and then. So nothing that big really.
But it does help I think -- some people decide to come back later, there are perhaps new business opportunities for the company, you get to keep in touch with old colleagues. I think it's a very good thing to have.
Another standpoint is what happens when a company is acquired (or goes under) - projects are often rolled in to something else or vanish entirely. Even from a business owner's perspective you may still have the ability to say - we built X or Y, perhaps long after the original company is forgotten.
No, the claim is: for programmers, it's better to work for a company who supports open source than one that doesn't.
As the article mentioned, work is important for life. It gives your mind varied experiences, which keeps it sharp. Open source means the value of your work doesn't evaporate once you leave the company.
Of course, you could try to fill 8 hours a day with something besides programming once your retire. But it's still strictly better to have the OPTION to continue programming, and even better to do it with some of the same code (assuming nontrivial codebases).
If you spend 30 years doing something 40 hours a week, you're going to be a lot better at it than something you only did on weekends. And at least for me, the reward is tied to the accomplishment.
For example, I've been learning how make videos with a DSLR recently. But this is at most a weekend thing. It's not that rewarding in the initial stages since I'm not good at it, and nobody cares about the end result because it's not good enough. With programming that's not the case.
If I were retired, I wouldn't be able to build meaningful work out of shooting video (or at least it would take another 5-10 years to do so). But I would be able to with programming, outside of a job. I could teach programming too, whereas I can't teach video.
But of course it's good to cultivate other hobbies... you could get crippling RSI and not be able to program. But my point is that work is privileged over hobbies. It's a different thing. Dawdling around with no goal is what makes people lose their mental toughness.
I think the idea is that there's a potentially meaningful part of someone's life outside of their company if what they work on isn't just contained in their company. I don't read it as the OP suggesting it's a precondition for a meaningful life; it seems to be one potential path.
I recognize I'm in this situation, but I have no idea what one could do to make a life meaningful, outside of good work or raising great kids, hopefully with a loving partner. I have already tried many things: Living in 3 other countries for 4 years in total (but I was missing family and friends support), being self-employed (I do B2B software like P.McKenzie), learning to dance (3 times, but I feel crap at it), music, judo, hundreds hours of volunteering (social, like activities for kids or refugees or mid-suburbs, or climate) but at one point it feels like cheap exploitation of underpaid workers, ... My sister climbs summits or goes to the end of herself (6000km biking anyone?) but I don't see the point. Those experiences never made me feel happy or fulfilled with my life (I'm 33). Only having a girlfriend once fulfilled me (until she dumped me like "you don't have leadership with your life") but you didn't count "partner" among things that fulfill your free time, did you? Let's be honest, I find life a bit boring ;) So what do you mean with "structure and accomplishment"? Do you have examples?
> Only having a girlfriend once fulfilled me (until she dumped me like "you don't have leadership with your life") but you didn't count "partner" among things that fulfill your free time, did you?
Please don't try to find this there. It makes you dependant on a person which isn't healthy for both of you and you are not going to find this idealised love in a relationship.
The main reasons that I see for men slowly losing their social life is because of work and obsessive fixation on a relationship.
I'm not saying don't have a relationship because it's great, it's just that I don't believe it should ever be the sole purpose of your life.
> So what do you mean with "structure and accomplishment"? Do you have examples?
For me at least this is having a great social network of friends. The fact that there's every day something to do for me outside of work together with friends. That's at least what I've been focusing on.
I'm in a happy relationship but I'm not going to give up my social life for her as so many of my friends did.
If you don't have a decent social network by the time you've left university (or if you lose it, e.g. by moving), it's hard to build one.
You can meet people here and there by going to Meetups and whatnot, but it's hard to go beyond casual acquaintance. You can't ask the same person to hang out too often, or you start seeming desperate and they will value your time and your friendship less.
And a bunch of one-to-one connection don't work, you need to build an interconnected network. But if you already had a nice group of people to connect newcomers to, you wouldn't have the problem in the first place. If you're lucky, you'll make one acquaintance that will pull you into their own social network, but that's not easy. If it's a network of people who have all known each other for a while, you'll always be the outsider.
If you want to try to put a network together yourself, you need to organize activities where strangers (your individual acquaintances) can meet and start forming connections. But it's pretty hard to get several people together at once. If you want to go to some event, you need to find something that everyone will like. And even then, it needs to be repeatable. You need to get your friends to meet several times, so one-off events, like a festival, won't work.
The best option, in my experience, is a house party. Everyone likes that, and you can have it however many times you like... provided you have a house where you can host people. In some areas, such as S-fucking-F, this is hard and/or very expensive.
And of course, you need to be the sort of person who can act as the hub of a social network. If you're introverted, you probably don't have the right skills.
If you can't be the hub yourself, your best bet is to befriend someone who can be the hub, so they'll build a social network that includes you. But if that person has been around a while, you're back to the outsider problem. They already have a network, and it doesn't include you. If you find someone who has hub-skills and is new in town, you may have struck gold. Of course, their social network will start to fall apart once they leave town.
One somewhat extreme yet effective solution to this is to get into situations where no one knows anyone and where there is some shared hardship involved.
We did this by moving to another country where there was limited potential to really integrate into the local community (Thailand).
Because expats existed in their own little community and everyone walked off the plane knowing no one all the new comers are extremely open to forming new friendships. At to this that moving to another country is a challenging experience which you are going through together and there is a very high potential for making a whole new group of friends.
The only similar equivalent I can imagine would be something like joining the military. Everyone shows up knowing no one then they all undergo a series of challenging experiences together. It is not surprising that some military people seem to form lifelong bonds with their peers.
Meanwhile if you stay wherever you usually live, an environment relatively lacking in hardship where everyone else has at least a semblance of an existing social network, making a whole new social network is extremely tough.
I hope it works out for everyone but imho it is very dangerous.
If I did this and the relationship ends 20 years from now I could find myself being an old guy without any friends and then it's harder (but still possible) to find new friends. (because you get rusty when you didn't do this kind of thing for decades)
I can definitely see why some people then choose to sit in front of a TV all day, because with your friends probably also a lot of the activities and hobbies you once enjoyed are gone.
I too don't feel having a partner and a family is enough for me to consider life fulfilling. For me a more meaningful life would also include doing more programming - but on a projects that I believe in, instead of ones I get assigned by my employers. It would also include a lot of what you'd call hard work in other domains, like electronics, chemistry, etc. - but again, self-directed, and for things that I care about.
Basically, I have shit ton of projects, ideas how to improve things for myself and people around me, that I don't have time to pursue because of $dayjob and $obligations. And I guess one could summarize it with one word - autonomy. This is something that I think leads to a more fulfilling life.
I'm like you, but I'm 30 and don't want a family or kids. And travel sounds incredibly boring.
I've been investing 90% of my income the past five years. When the article or any coworker says "enjoy your hard earned money" it makes no sense to me. What does spending money have to do with happiness?
And yet, more money is all I want. If you gave me a billion dollars tomorrow my first thought would be "how do I turn that into two billion?"
I might become a monk. Serious. Ever thought of that?
There are some studies out there (too lazy now to go search for any) that mentions that money is related to hapiness up to a point that it can get you out of poverty and make you stop thinking about it.. Then, the relation is mostly none.
Seriously, what would you do with those 2 billion?
That research has been called into question [0]. In my opinion it's like anything else...there is no absolute answer. Some people will be happier with more money. Some won't.
I might recommend you start Qi-Gong, or some authentic energy manipulation art. After 20 years of practicing or so (If one has a good teacher/school), things can get pretty interesting internally. This type of hobby is a prerequisite for shaolin monks who want to go further into the depths of zen meditation. (which would be quite dangerous at advanced levels without qi-gong allowing them to control their internal organizational cell energy (or Qi/Prana in Asian terms))
Yes. I'm insecure about myself and I feel like having a lot of money might solve the issue. At least let me walk around confidently, comfortable in my own skin. At least, that's the hypothesis.
one advice - take a backpack, turn off your phone and go around india for couple of months, low key, low budget. either himalaya, or south, or anything in between (varanasi can be a powerful experience). it changed my life for better, much better, and so did for many more people. It doesn't have to be india per se, but it's the most exotic place to western culture out there and supremely huge.
if you look for some enlightenment from behind the keyboard, there will be none.
(on personal level, mountains and travelling to them & around did it for me. it takes time to be in shape to enjoy them and not only suffer up & down, but it's well worth it. most intense moments of my life happened this way. i will die with a smile on my face for having a privilege to experience them)
It's a good advice, but not everyone needs to run away from something. Sometimes we just have to face ourselves and do a deep introspection on our lives.. I, for myself, find it really hard sometimes to know how I should run my life, or what are my goals. Maybe sometimes there isn't any need to have goals, or maybe my goal is to accomplish every goal so that I empty my goal bucket..
Whatever, I think each one of us are mostly giving bad advices to each other, and the truth is that almost no one knows with certainty what we're doing with our lifes. We just go with the tide, turning left or right when things seems to match what we think we want..
it was never about running away from anything, I was coming back in 3 months to things and people I left there. It was about adventure, exposing yourself to new situations, cultures, people, everything. every single day. it gives you huge amount of time to see yourself, introspect, experience yourself in all kinds of crazy conditions, and discover that we humans are amazing, strong beings if we try a bit.
also that monetary wealth and happiness are almost mutually exclusive, but that's another topic :)
as for those goals - while hiking in nepal around annapurna, i met american guy, great fella, who unknowingly changed course of my life in many ways. planted some sort of idea-seed in my head. never expected anything like that to happen, there or anywhere. best thing in my life. but for this, you cannot plan nor prepare. for sure, it won't happen while staying at home.
It's novel but it's an ephemeral novelty. It disappears as soon as you're home and back in your old ways. Better to understand the internal source of dissatisfaction and address it directly.
If life is truly boring and you seek "meaning" then your suggestion, "raising great kids", is the path to take.
Picking up that first little bundle in your hands sets off neurons that lay latent for decades awaiting the moment and which instantaneously rewire your brain to protect/foster. If you had control before that moment, you certainly don't after. And you'll have more "meaning" than you can handle.
Bad news: you'll _worry_ about them until you die - retirement will be the _least_ of your concerns.
P.S. Mormon girls are smart, friendly, usually very healthy and most of them believe that children are a good thing.
> I have no idea what one could do to make a life meaningful, outside of good work or raising great kids
But isn't that meaningful enough? Having one's own kids is great and very fullfiling, and having good work can be as well (although not as much as having kids, imho).
I have an anecdote about my experience not working for a long period of time. Sounds like I'm in quite a different place in my life to you but I hope you don't mind me sharing and maybe there might be some part of it that is useful. :)
I just spent a year on maternity leave when my second child was born in May last year and headed back to the office in April this year. I'm a software developer for a medium sized team.
Adjusting to not being at work was quite difficult for about the first four months, particularly towards the end of the fourth month where the novelty had worn off but I hadn't really figured it out yet.
Because it was my second leave, I knew that to be content I would have to work through my feelings around my identity without work. It was both difficult and freeing to rediscover myself outside of the pressures of work. I personally felt a little bit afraid that there wouldn't be much left (kind of sad, I know), but I tried to just stay patient with my feelings. I feel like my identity now is more grounded. It was interesting that actually most of the things I value about myself didn't really change. One less thing to feel irrationally afraid of, I guess. :)
With a toddler and a baby at home, I didn't have trouble filling my days, but I thought a lot about how I could best enjoy the time. My goal was just to feel content, not necessarily happy or fulfilled.
The best thing was spending time with my local mum friends. The kids and I would meet up with our friends during the day at least three times a week. I think having a strong, available local network was really important for feeling connected and staying sane.
I joined a local charity for supporting families with babies and ran a group for parents with new babies. It was lovely doing something I felt very passionate about that made the world a tiny bit better. It was kind of nice to be able to use my organisational skills to get it all up and running. A slightly surprising (to me) result was it expanded my social network quite a lot.
I worked on a personal programming project. With all the other things going on, I really needed something just for myself and to work my brain in that way. I would really look forward to the middle of the day when both my kids were resting.
At around four months, we all fell into a fairly comfortable routine. Our days had a fairly standard rhythm and we had regular playdates and play groups to break up the week. The weeks actually started to pass quite quickly at that point.
I feel quite proud that I learnt to live at a slower pace. I miss being able to walk the buggy up to the park just because the day is sunny. It felt quite luxurious to be able to spend as long as I (or my kids) wanted on things, to choose what I was going to do with my day and to not be on a timetable.
I was kind of ready to come back to work after my time was up (small kids are physically and emotionally demanding!), but I was really glad to have the experience. I think in an ideal world, I'd have a career break every five years. It was such a wonderful way to unwind and get some perspective on things.
Err... but I'm a man. Although you'll find counter-examples, spending time with local mum friends won't do it as a man, I already can't count how many sexist jokes I get from girls every time I cook. Also, you describe a lifestyle where you don't have to bring money back home: No wonder you like it. Should I suppose you had a boyfriend working?
So, no, sorry, I can't make a baby and get 4 months of holidays, and my girlfriend is not going to pay for my lifestyle.
It's quite a mistake to show off to a man about things they can't have, especially things that are invoiced to men (such as the lady's free meal).
>“You go from working 50, 60, 70 hours a week to zero,” Moen says. “And it very much affects your identity. Who am I? For men, the answer usually is their job.”
That is why it's important not anchor your identity in the transient. The world is full of people who do and it invariably hits them hard when things inevitably change: Mothers with empty nest syndrome, ageing people clinging desperately to their youthful good looks, jobless and retired people who find their self-esteem smashed and consider themselves useless.
It helps if you clearly define the roles you play in your life: a husband, a father, a brother, a friend, a software dev, a jogger, a cyclist, a member of the local club, an avid collector of y and, above all, a person who can create new roles and find new places for yourself.
> It helps if you clearly define the roles you play in your life: a husband, a father, a brother, a friend, a software dev, a jogger, a cyclist, a member of the local club, an avid collector of y and, above all, a person who can create new roles and find new places for yourself.
Most of those things ARE transient.
Most of the retirees anymore had their jobs for life (ok, 30+ years). As in, within a single company. After that long, employment is taken for granted, and it's hard to see oneself not being on the job.
Yes, that's exactly the point I was making. It's why you need to be able to view them as temporary roles you are playing and not what you are or all you are.
I've been out of work for 3 years (by choice). I haven't found this way to fill my void outside of work better. I'm not sure jumping in the deep end and assuming people will find a way is the right path for everyone.
I've done a lot of open source in that time but, at least for me that's not enough. I don't have an SO and so effectively I have zero companionship. Work often filled that void, especially with lots of overtime on teams. My closest friends are all x-coworkers. The last job though, for whatever reason, provided none of that, co-workers never became friends outside of work, one of the reasons I left.
I'm not retired though (don't have funds for that) so eventually I'll get a job again. In the meantime there's all the obvious solutions like volunteering, going to meetups, organizing meetups, etc. For various reasons I haven't pursued those yet
+1. If your finances are sorted out, it's good to take a break from work for 2-3 months and do absolutely nothing. What you once craved, 8 hours of sleep, hanging out with friends, traveling, spending time with family etc, once you experience them for a long enough time, will start hurting and you will start craving for work. I think it's a myth that one can just chill out forever, which is why I also believe that UBI will also work.
And I think it's a myth you can't. I did so for a year and for various reasons had to jump back to the meat grinder, I never felt less alive than being back to work. It's demeaning, in all senses.
You probably have the wrong idea about chill, if you sleep 10h a day and do nothing else than watch cartoons may be don't blame the lack of work, but the lack of ambition. You can garden (that'll keep you plenty busy), reduce your footprint on this rotten planet by crafting things yourself, be active in meeting new people, open your horizons.
This "work is meaningful" is the biggest lie of our era, it feels meaningful because most have forgotten how to enjoy their day to day life and the fulfillment that comes with being in charge of your own life. Work as we know and do it is a travesty and a lie kept alive because it benefits some.
I hear people talk about progress, about the planet, the environment, well if we stopped working so damn much may be all of that would have a better future, because right now the work & consuming obsessed society we are is destroying it while most like to pretend we're improving.
Craving for work... One craves for work like one craves for death.
As a counterpoint, I've been off on a sabbatical for 4 months now, and I wasn't sure exactly what I was going to do.
I honestly thought that I would be bored and craving work at this point. But it turns out that I have enough open source ideas that 3 months can fly by with pleasure, and I extended my sabbatical for another few months.
I also have neighbors who I'm friends with, which helps tremendously. And I get to go to all the nice places in SF during the daytime, when it's not crowded.
I agree it's good to take a break from your job, but for me that meant working on stuff I've wanted to work on for YEARS.
I don't think you'll ever get sick of 8 hours of sleep :) That really helps the brain, and mental health. (Although I always got of 8 hours of sleep, even while working)
Honestly, most of your friends and family are probably all working and busy with their own stuff. You can hang out with them a little more, but it's not like you'll ever go from hanging out once a week to hanging out every day. And at least to me, travelling is boring if you don't know anyone there, or have any larger purpose. It feels like I'm constantly getting ripped off too.
Travelling feels like consumption; programming feels like creation. Consumption is only fun in the moment, IMO. The difficulty of creation provides some of the ups and downs that you need for an interesting mental life.
And exercising is harder on vacation for me... I end up getting antsy and uncomfortable because I'm not biking every day.
But yeah I think it is good to spend some time semi-retired and see if you can bear it!
Great points. To me, any act of creation or any act that aids in creation = work. Programming, gardening, reading, investing, polishing shoes - anything that makes you feel like you've done something. Rest is all consumption. Chill out = consumption, which I think has some limits.
I meant to say 10 hours of sleep, but hey 8h is the new 10h :)
>I think it's a myth that one can just chill out forever
Absolutely. My wife and I spent a few years traveling full-time, mostly SE Asia. I worked remotely while my wife was busy with various projects.
In particular, tropical islands are incredibly damaging to your motivation and general happiness. We arrived grossly overestimating how much we would enjoying hanging out on a tropical islands and met a great many people who had the same misconception.
For good reason most who have the option to stay long term get bored and then go somewhere else after a few weeks or months. Among those who stay long term alcoholism is rife. There just isn't that much to do in a "tropical paradise", particularly at night.
Getting back into a city was a genuine relief after a few months of islands, beaches etc.
A tropical island with a goodly supply of rum punch, a well-stocked library, and a hammock sounds like paradise to me. Whenever I go on vacation, catching up on my reading is always one of my goals.
That is the trap, assuming that what appeals on a vacation will remaining appealing once it becomes your normal state. It isn't even just an issue of getting bored, the knowledge that this is your normal life rather than a time boxed vacation changes your experience from day one.
well, staying at one place makes no sense if you want to have ultimate experience. one can easily spend 10-20 years travelling from one exotic location to the next, if cash is present. even just tropical paradise hopping can be done for 1-2 years.
best setup i've seen is to travel around the globe maybe 2 years, through all possible locations. enjoy given country for few weeks/months if it's a big one and move.
after that, people were ready to settle (but who knows for how long)
For me at least this isn't didn't work. As just a small example I went to Europe for 3 months. Helsinki->Stockholm-Antwerp->Brussels->Berlin->Copenhagen->Tromso->Amsterdam->Koln->Dusseldorf->London. Seeing each city was great but the actual things to do start to get very similar. Each city has 2-3 churches. A bunch of art museums with many of the same artists. Yet another farmer's market or marketplace. Shopping centers with the same brands. etc..
I think it was "Happy Money" by Elizabeth Dunn that claimed their studies indicated that long vacations are not as effective as short vacations because most people get used to it quickly and the novelty wears off. That certainly fits my experience.
If her research is true then it would suggest taking a short trips every once in a while (a week or less?) would be more rewarding than a long trips.
Of course everyone is different. I'm sure some people love infinite travel.
i would never consider visiting any western (or westernized) country to be on par with truly exotic ones, especially when backpacking. maybe they just 'click' with me and all people I know that went through this and describe similar effects, you can be surely different.
but until you try that india experience I suggest, backpacking, on low budget, we're talking about completely different experiences in depth and intensity. 3 months were enough for me, went twice like that.
just one comparison - after a month, all life back home was a very distant memory. after additional month spent hiking in nepal, all my previous life seemed like a faded memory of a dream i had a month ago, unreal. or like childhood memories. not sure how to describe it better
I took an early retirement a few years ago, this is good advice about cutting back work, but for many people it's hard to get there employer to agree to fewer hours. There are many reasons for this, not the least of which the way many employers control cost is buy just limiting headcount. Another option, which I took is to take a leave of absence. I took off 4 months, the most I could swing about 5 years before I finally quit. Certainly for 4 months I didn't feel bored at all. For me at least, two years now I'm not bored at all. For people interested in learning new technology, in my opinion there has never been a better time.
Also agree with the need to develop social connections outside of work. That could be friends you share a hobby or activity with, a volunteer group or cause you believe in, or anything else. Another option is finding part time work after you quit. I had a close childhood friend who asked me to help him with a project. We live in different parts of the country and previously we communicated at best once a year or so. Now even when there's not much to do we talk at least once a month.
I also recommend reading up on the subject before you do. This is reading list I went through leading up to my retirement. While much of the financial advice maybe out of date, some of it covers just the psychological aspects.
This is why I love teaching. You get a "mini-retirement" for the two summer months every year. After a few years, this gets old and you are forced to find new hobbies to fill the time. Nowadays, I look forward to my summers off precisely because I can start working on my hobbies/side projects for 30 hours a week.
As they say in the article, I think many people approach retirement as a cessation.
From what I've seen of my own parents, I hope that retirement for me will be more a change of what I'm working on, and how I work, rather than whether or not I work.
I'm also trying to make those changes now - working on what I want to work on, at a reasonable pace, at the level and times I'm interested. I'd quite happily keep doing this forever.
It's a little frustrating that we reserve "living well and enjoying the fruits of your labor" for aged people - I'd rather enjoy it while I'm still relatively young and healthy, and mix it into my life rather than setting it aside as a separate thing.
I view retirement mostly as financial freedom. I have every intention of working after retirement as I get personal enjoyment out of doing what I do. I just haven't decided what "work" will look like.
This. I am baffled by friends and family that talk about how they couldn't retire because what would they do? My response is to list the many, many things I want to do that I can't because I 'have to work': read more, learn new languages (spoken & computer), take up the piano/guitar, try new games (board, tabletoprpg, computer), write, program, etc.
The only reason I ever get bored is because I don't have the time, resources, and/or other people to do what I want. The thought of not having to rely on a work schedule to provide necessary resources sounds wonderful, not threatening.
The last couple of vacations I've taken have been staycations. Even though I have many hobbies and interests - several musical instruments, writing music, drawing, dabbling in code, reading - not having the structure of a job and expectations of others weighing on me to 'be productive' I procrastinated quite a lot. I frequently felt anxious and unfulfilled. I took this experience as a glimpse into what retirement might be like.
In retirement I think I'll need to create a schedule for myself that includes having others depending on me to 'show up'. E.g. doing volunteer teaching, etc.
I've noticed it's really difficult to work on side projects also when you're in between jobs (especially if you don't have much saved up) because the looming threat of financial ruin never lets you forget it, and you just get too distracted by it that it's hard to be productive even though you have so much more time, and every moment you spend on side projects your brain goes "you could be putting this energy into looking for a new job right now."
I know that's probably different than your staycations, but it's for that reason that I don't think I will be as bad at working on my personal projects once I've retired (if I ever can retire).
I've found that when I've been stressed out or overly busy, it can take a while to adjust to a more relaxed rhythm. At first I just want to slack off completely. After a couple of days, this gets boring, but it takes longer than that for my motivation to come back.
Last year I was unemployed for about a month, and it was really only near the end of that time that I started to get some momentum going with side projects and hobbies.
I've recently started scheduling stuff I'm doing in advance and trying to stick to it, and I found it incredibly empowering. I too ended up wasting a lot of free time despite having a growing bucket list of things to create - scheduling free time helps to overcome that and generally makes me happier. I hope to use the same technique if/when I retire.
I think this is a change that cannot be done just after retiring because the mindset is not prepared. This is something that has to be cultivated during years so when the moment of retirement comes, you keep doing your alternative things instead of wondering "what should I do now?"
It's not all rainbows and sunshine - my brain likes to be _interested_, so as soon as I feel a challenge is "figured out" (even if it's incomplete) I tend to move on to the next thing.
So it's easy for me to be engaged, hard for me to complete anything.
Wait, so you know you will work after retirement. You get personal enjoyment out of your work. But you don't know what your work will be?
It sounds like you're saying that you want to continue existing and being able to do things after you retire... That is exactly what retirement is. Why do you feel like you need to sound like one of those "go-getting", "I'm-always-working" people who thinks everyone should work 22 hours a day?
+1 to this. I plan to retire, or at least semi-retire at some point. To me, that means I'll have more time to do things I want to do that don't necessarily generate income.
I'm reading "Letters From a Self-made Merchant to his Son"[0] and this particular passage stuck out at me (keep in mind the author/merchant was very rich for his time and ran the business):
> I hear a good deal about men who won’t take vacations, and who kill themselves by overwork, but it’s usually worry or whiskey. It’s not what a man does during working-hours, but after them, that breaks down his health. A fellow and his business should be bosom friends in the office and sworn enemies out of it. A clear mind is one that is swept clean of business at six o’clock every night and isn’t opened up for it again until after the shutters are taken down next morning.
I think this really is something that's lost in our time. I know that 90% of the people reading this comment take their laptops home with them after work.
A better takeaway from this is to make sure that your Job is not the most important thing in your life.
If your Job is the thing you do as little of as needed so that you can afford to spend time doing the really important things that give your life meaning, then having your Job go away isn't anywhere near as devastating as this article suggests. It's only because people tend to put so much of their identity into their career that this is an issue at all.
I "Retired" from the 9-5 world last year, and my quality of life has seen a noticeable spike ever since. I have always prioritized climbing and other outdoor pursuits, travel and (more recently) raising kids over working, so dropping work down to near zero just let me turn all those other knobs up to where I think they should naturally belong. There's still a "work" knob in the form of the product businesses that bring in my income, and it too is dialed way down to where it belongs. Just enough to keep the mind sharp and diverted with a few hours of geekery each week.
So the key, in my mind, is to arrange things so that you honestly don't miss your job once it comes time to give it up. It's cool to work hard and all. But there's a lot more to life than just work. If you wait until you're 65 then are suddenly forced to go find out what those other things are, it's going to be a lot less fun than if you start introducing them at age 25 and have them ticking away ready to take center stage as soon as the opportunity arises.
I wonder if this article isn't putting the cart before the horse. If you're not getting just older but also sicker it gets harder and harder to drag yourself to work each day.
Or, to put it another way, maybe you're working at 75 because you're not sick instead of not being sick because you're working.
I'm in my thirties, and already have some mild chronic health issues that make me not really want to go to work some days. I imagine at 75 it's going to be nearly impossible to get me to go in to work most days. Hopefully everyone lives 24/7 in a VR pod by then.
I'm thinking I'll code till the day I die. So much cool tech is always coming out - so much to play with and invent! I also have very time consuming hobbies - reading, playing video games, pen and paper role playing games, board games.
I don't know if everyone is this way, but at 50 I am losing a little of the starry-eyed excitement. I've seen a lot of the same ideas come around again and again as a new great thing. And yet the pace of change is so fast, if you try to stay current you feel like you never really become an expert in anything. You get jaded.
If and when I "retire" I would not see myself not working, but I do think I might do somthing completely different and new.
I could see walking away from computer tech entirely. In fact that idea is pretty attractive, honestly. I'm old enough to clearly remember the days before the internet, before mobile phones, before being constantly connected to everything 24x7. When you would leave the house or office, nobody would be able to get in touch with you and you could do what you wanted to do without interruption or distraction. It was nice.
I'm 28 and have lost all the starry-eyed excitement :(
I was top of class in college, then advanced in huge strides in the first years of my career; now I just want to go home and read a non-technical book.
Entirely possible. When I was about your age I wound up taking off and teaching English to little kids in Thailand. That was a great experience that involved a refreshing amount of time away from a computer.
I was able to pick up my career afterwards easily enough. I actually wound up working on education related software so my little teaching experience may have even helped.
The only lasting (sort of) negative was that I met so many people in Thailand who were living dramatically different lives that the idea of living out the rest of my days in a cubicle become less palatable.
I did the same at the same age as well, except I was teaching English in Japan. After only a few months of that, I had a burning desire to be back in a coding career, and to be as far away from eikaiwas as possible.
If you've never worked outside the tech industry, you would be amazed at how good we get it.
Lol. Very true. As much as I enjoyed teaching 6-8 year old and essentially playing games and singing songs all day having to clock in and out, a strict dress code and having to complete vast volumes of dead tree paperwork wasn't super fun. Especially when compared to software companies I have worked for. Flexible hours, free snacks, and wear whatever you want.
I've lost the starry-eyed excitement about most "new cool tech" long time ago. Pretty much before the time I entered the job market. But that only means I'm free to ignore all the hip trends and focus on building something I like, on solving some problems I feel need solving, on optimizing things around me. After all, isn't that the purpose of all those tools?
27 and I feel the same way, in that I don't feel much excitement around technology for technology's sake anymore. The latest version of macOS? Neat, but unlikely to be as "game changing" as Apple might have you believe.
The rate of change in some areas of technology can make you think that you're missing out on some kind of important development, however if things are changing that fast then perhaps nothing is really changing at all.
Mostly it's important that in whatever you're working on you're applying technology to a problem or area that you find interest in, otherwise the only "fun" can be found in the tech stack, which is not (in my not-too-humble opinion) a good place to find enjoyment. You can enjoy your tools, sure, but it shouldn't be the case that "We're using X, Y and Z" is more important than "to make Foo".
One thing I discovered some time ago is that the industry is basically running in circles. There isn't much new being really created; people keep reinventing the same solutions that have been made in the 70-s, only worse, and they still miss some. I think it's better to slow down a bit, brush up on some history, and then build stuff you want to build without worrying you're missing something important.
Do you think the adage "Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it" holds true in the technology industry? I could cherry pick some examples just to start a flame war, for examples Node's "invention" of single-threaded event-based concurrency, but that feels a bit unfair ;)
> When you would leave the house or office, nobody would be able to get in touch with you and you could do what you wanted to do without interruption or distraction. It was nice.
It was nice? You can still leave your phone at home.
In which case you need to delineate your channels of access more clearly. Move your main communication to something more asynchronous (email, text, wechat/whatsapp, slack), set a time where things will be checked, and perhaps offer an emergency line over real-time messaging (phone calls fit the bill best).
Most things are not time critical, and a sizable portion of the things that are, are not mission critical.
This certainly applies to me. The workaround is to just let those close to you know that you'll be off the grid for a while but are still ok. Then you don't need to worry about them worrying.
There are a lot of unsolved problems in the world, and computers are a great place to explore their potential solutions. I don't really understand this "same ideas come around again and again", because maybe that means you're not properly keeping up with the state of the art. Maybe you should broaden your horizons?
A lot of the "unsolved problems in the world" are either problems that more technology won't solve, or aren't things that can be solved easily by current technology. They are social and human problems, which essentially boil down to "how" we live.
I think that poster's point about the same ideas coming round again and again was that in some areas of technology "keeping up with the state of the art" is just a case of re-learning how to do something that you already understand and know how to do, but in a way that is now structured differently. Broadening your horizons can (in some cases) end up in you seeing the underlying same-ness in a lot of things.
I didn't say technology would solve those problems. I said technology can be used to explore potential solutions.
I understand the point; you've restated it exactly as I understand it. That's why I brought up unsolved problems. The state of the art here is very often new and novel approaches that have not been explored in enough depth.
Take color theory, for example. I want a function that maps points outside visible Lab to the nearest visible point in Lab. Sure, that's a solved problem, but if you don't already know how to solve it, you've got something to learn. More importantly, can it be done quickly? Can it be generalized to other color spaces? What is the best data structure for encoding only visible points in Lab? Then there's a problem of generating maximally orthogonal gradient curves covering an image.
There are purely technical problems. Can you solve them analytically? Will it help you to learn Topology or Tensor calculus? You won't know until you try. And there are new results in any of these fields coming out every day. Pick up a textbook and think about how to write software that will be capable of solving all the problems in that book. Does it already exist? Is it optimal? Easy to use?
Everything looks the same when you're saying "I'm just applying some abstraction to a problem and encoding it into a machine using several layers of translation." But that shouldn't make you cynical, as that leaves plenty of room for innovation and learning. But if you're thinking "this new framework/language is just doing more of the same," then maybe stop focussing on frameworks and languages and instead focus on the problems they should be solving rather than the ones they actually do. And even there, you should have no problem seeing syntactic and efficiency hiccups that might be ameliorated through an intense exploratory creative design session.
I worked with a 63 year old who didn't plan on retirement. He was physically and mentally active. Always up to date on new frameworks, languages, etc. He could also pick a new project very rapidly.
I am only 30 but have been unemployed for about 15 months, due to a significant family health and legal situation.
I can definitely say that not working, even if other life needs are met, has had a hugely adverse affect. I definitely need to feel proud of what I am working on to feel whole and well.
Ceasing to work and then resuming a new job search is also demoralizing. Most people will not even consider hiring you unless you are already working, even if you can ace the code tests, point to open source or publicly available work samples, and explain your tech skills in extreme detail.
Few people seem to earnestly care what you can actually do technically. Ironically, I've found it's the ones who are hyperfocused on things like HackerRank tests who are least likely to care. Sure, you aced our HackerRank test, but after we thought about the fact you're not already employed we just decided no.
I've even had recruiters and hiring managers get irrationally angry at me via email feedback or in phone interviews just for being unemployed, like they are personally mad at me that they have to come up with a reason to reject me. Even when I explain it has been an unavoidable and quite severe family problem, they are still mad.
In a few cases it was even borderline verbal abuse. One recruiter took a very condescending tone with me and said something like, "it sounds like you don't even want to work" when I told him some of the things I was searching for in my next position. Then he proceeded to pressure me on several jobs that were clearly not at all appropriate for me.
It's incredibly demoralizing, and I am even quite good at what I do. Just tonight I am hacking away at some stuff involving integrating the Postgres C API with the NumPy C API so that I can easily call NumPy array functions on Postgres arrays, as a C extension. It involves knowing a lot about CPython, NumPy, the Postgres C API, Postgres arrays, and a mix of other stuff. My plan is to ultimately compare it with MonetDB, which has tight integration with NumPy arrays natively (whereas, for plpythonu functions, Postgres arrays are converted to Python lists, which is horrible).
This is not easy stuff, very advanced CPython stuff and I feel it shows I'm a fast learner too (I've only been using Python for a few years).
Doesn't matter. I don't have a job, so nobody looking to hire for the positions I'm seeking will even consider it.
It makes it very hard and depressing to continue trying (seemingly in vain) to keep my coding skills sharp.
You've got to learn to avoid telling them that you're unemployed. Best way is to work for yourself. Assign yourself a project, pay yourself in equity, and work on it for a few hours each day. Rehearse telling people about it in such a way that it sounds like a legit job. That will be easier if you take it as seriously as a legit job.
In my case, I was required to relocate from a large east coast city back to my family's home in the rural Midwest, where I perform functions to care for a family circumstance and they take up effectively a full-time job's worth of hours every week. It's all I can do to continue exercising and cooking healthy meals. "Working" a full-time side project that yields no short-term income is wholly and entirely physically intractable in my current situation.
Besides that, it would be very dishonest of me to downplay or fudge the explanation of my current period of unemployment. The family problem has been severe and required me to leave from a job, dedicate huge amount of time and money, and many other sacrifices. The only reason I could consider taking a new job is that the income would allow me to pay for people to take over the care duties I am currently personally performing. So the exact, real reasons for my unemployment are actually very relevant, important things for my next employer to understand and fundamentally be OK with.
Ah, I see. I think that still counts as work. If you've been saying "I've been off work" in interviews, that might not work, but it would be just as true to say "I've been working for my family."
Yes, I do say this. Obviously you can't just vaguely say "I've been working" -- they will ask exactly what "work" you have been doing, which is when I explain just the bare minimum details of my family situation necessary for an employer.
Most people interviewing me express a lot of compassion, say it's admirable to see someone sticking to help their family as I have, and then promptly reject me for not currently being employed.
That is a rough situation, and it sounds like you are hanging in there impressively. Hats off to you for that.
I do have to agree with the other poster, I sounds like the big thing here is the framing of the situation, your presentation, and projecting confidence.
Perhaps doing fake interviews with people and getting their feedback on the non-technical aspects could be helpful (it sounds like you are nailing the technical stuff). Or you could record yourself answering expected questions and work on coming across amiably and confidently, as it fits your personality of course.
Also, I'm not sure where your located, but my guess is that there may be some geographic/cultural differences in the severity of this issue. My impression is that in SF, one's current employment status is less important than other indicators.
I was living and working on the east coast in a major city for about the past 8 years, and feel that culturally I resonate more with urban lifestyle, tech & university hubs, etc. Sense of humor is important to me ... I'm one of those people who was raised on The Simpsons, despite how cliche it is and how much Sean & Hayes of Hollywood Handbook would mock me for saying so.
The family situation has required me to move to the rural midwest to do full-time care and administration of a legal issue, provide childcare, and do many other things. I went to high school and college here, so I know the ropes, but it's not a place that I identify with or culturally fit into, and I think anyone who interacted with me for a few minutes would know that quickly.
I will always continue practicing presentation skills, but confidence in public speaking and especially confidence in speaking clearly and precisely about the technical work I've done are things that come naturally to me.
Firms from SF have been among the worst. The tech culture there just seems problematic and I think I would strongly prefer New York or Boston over SF, though for a good-fitting role, I'd consider really anywhere.
But after interviewing with a lot of SF firms and getting feedback that either (a) they would not consider paying adequate relocation or (b) they would not consider someone who is not currently working, I just focused my search on different geographic regions.
I tend to get a lot of first interviews based on my education and past experience, but after I answer questions about my current unemployment gap, it's like everyone just feels it's too complicated to bother fiddling with it at all and they just dismiss it without considering my skills.
Your education and past experience are very impressive. Your employment gap is less so. There's a lot of passion and pride in your stories, use that energy to sell yourself to employers - tell them you'll make something for them that they'll be proud of.
What about giving tech presentations as self-employment? Since you enjoy doing these, you would just need an audience, maybe at a school? Or maybe presenting concepts on YouTube?
"There were problems and I had to move home to run the family for a while, but I stayed busy making YouTube videos about tech concepts," might be a more palatable narrative to a prospective boss. The kids could even help make the videos.
As I mentioned in the other comment, given the full-time duties I have to care for my current family situation, there simply is no physical possibility for doing anything that remotely resembles work. Devoting the time necessary to create presentation materials alone would be way, way too prohibitive. Already, even just spend a couple hours on telephone interviews and a couple hours on personal code projects is an extreme time strain for me, not to mention that in this rural area there is no reliable internet connection and I often go for hours, sometimes even days, without ability to connect except by tethering to a 4G device and paying huge data charges.
If I have to pick between spending those few hours actually coding vs. spending them making videos or something, I think it's obvious that actually coding (and reading to stay current) is much more important. That's what I want to do in my next job. Making YouTube videos is likely to be completely ignored by most recruiters, and even when considered it won't be regarded as useful in the way that actual coding skill will be.
I view retirement (distant future for me) as a chance to do unappreciated work. Does the world need a new birdhouse? Who cares. When I retire, if I want to spend 100 hours on a birdhouse, then I can, and I don't need to justify it to anyone.
I'll even say it's worth $5000 because I spent so much time on it, and put it up for sale on eBay. If nobody buys it, then who cares?
But sit around and do whatever the default thing is (watch TV, etc.): No thanks.
I'm not sure why "retire" is equated with sitting on the porch doing nothing. Perhaps that is the image that some folks hold but I know lots and lots of people who fund their own existence through passive income (savings, etc) and do all sorts of interesting things. I need a different word for that state, perhaps self employed might be more accurate since at that point you are paying your own "salary".
My Grandfather retired at 45, after becoming the head-banker for a large bank in the north island of New Zealand. Got his gold Rolex and everything. He then proceeded to start, fund and get involved in a number of businesses, owns race-horses, has a massive social circle and is still going strong at 75. He's my idol, for good reason :)
It seems like leisure in the sense that Thoreau was talking about would be a good fit. Leisure"s contemporary meaning is pretty much doing nothing productive. Thoreau viewed at as doing things for their own sake, which does not preclude being productive. You can work as hard in leisure as you would for err... work to make a livelihood.
Studies of health and activity have started to use accelerometers over the past decade. This has shown that even very modest levels of activity - on the order of washing dishes and puttering around the garden - have a meaningful correlation with health. This is causing something of a rethinking of the lower end of the dose-response curve for exercise.
So when looking at the correlations between retirement and health, I'm inclined to think that physical activity level has a lot to do with it.
This literally just happened to my Dad. He went from working fulltime to being retired. He has completely lost his sense of purpose in life, mopes around, is becoming depressed. I feel bad but its also kinda pathetic. I mean c'mon dude you have decades of time to do whatever the fuck you want to.
To me this is a symptom of men who do not find any other purpose in their life besides working and providing. We need diversification of interests and activities for our long-term wellbeing.
I hope you're trying to do something to light a fire for him. This happened to a relative of mine and I still am trying to get him into more hobbies. He has more free time than he knows what to do with.
I despise the use of the word "work" here. Basically any activity that you find rewarding and that keeps your body and mind moving will have the same effect.
I.e. getting out of the bed and doing stuff helps you not to become a senile cretin. It doesn't have to be work
Indeed. But for some reason people connect work with self worth. I have that the same with my hobbies but apparently a lot of people do not; it needs to be work to get that same feeling.
This is a concern for me as I consider "early" retirement. I'm not sure what I would do with all that time.
I took a bit of a sabbatical a few years ago and ran into some of the problems described in the article. After a few months, it did have some pretty negative effects on my mental health.
Open a little shop, work in a bike store or book store, build houses for habitat for humanity, build trails, work for production companies, be a teacher's assistant, be a barista, do all the cool low-paying jobs that you couldn't afford to do before.
Find a problem to solve in your local community and do what it takes to fix it, no matter how small. You'll learn, do good and get involved with your community more.
I recently took six months off to try and solve some local problems. There hasn't been a dull moment. :)
Please expand on some of what you're working on! I've been thinking about just this sort of "work" to start dipping my toes into, don't quite know where to start.
A lot of it is me getting annoyed at something that certainly impacts many others. It's gone down some interesting paths. What I've found in general is that the small things not only add up, but they help find where the root causes are. So, if you can help fix the small things and enough people do it, the better the world becomes in general.
Things like, "Why has that lamp been out for a month?" can become very interesting if you pursue them to a certain depth. :)
You sound exactly like my mom, and I mean that in an incredibly positive way. She has fixed so many issues in public facilities just by picking up the phone and persisting. She can expedite anything, and she'll go to great lengths to help others. Her social network is massive as well. She hasn't worked in years, but I have insane respect for her and I envy her a lot!
Lots of the work is just me identifying problems that I see and trying to fix them. Most of it is just exploratory and can be stressful at times, but it's overall very rewarding. I just accepted an offer in the infosec field to get out of the stress and to, well, get out of a financial hole.
-Heck of a lot of FOIA requests to get the Chicago mayor's office's phone records.
-Went to a hackathon a couple months back and made a domestic violence shelter map which has since been taken over by a small team of volunteers.
-Got some wrongful parking tickets and started a project to map out Chicago's parking tickets using FOIA data.
-Started setting up a LAN party with some friends which we hope will have 160+ people.
-Freelance work here and there for some cash to help pay the bills.
-Found some security vulnerabilities that could have impacted comcast's network which I helped fix. Did the same with Northwestern, but they didn't fix it.
I'm not sure it's related at all, but anecdotally I found myself often falling sick after completing a crunch period at work, or taking a 1-2 week off from work. Nothing serious, but a cold/fever typically.
As if being busy forces the body to not allow any sickness.
Some years back, 60 Minutes interviewed a research chemist who was over 100, tottering around in his lab. They asked him why he didn't retire, and he replied that research chemistry was fun.
This is certainly a big issue. In the comments, I see of course how it's so vital for all of us, and yet our problems and our advice...varies because we're all different and it's hard to express what we are and what we love in two paragraphs. We can't help but talk past each other somewhat with strangers.
Maybe what is best to take away from advice is less the specifics and more to take heart that others want to communicate and share and help.
For my part, I'll say that "work" as such is not the place to seek meaning unless...unless it's right there for you, isn't hurting anything or anyone, etc.
A great example for me is Don Melton, formerly of Safari and WebKit, who tweets routinely about his work on video transcoding [1]. I follow him on Twitter (@donmelton) and he gives me hope for any future retirement I might be lucky enough to have.
Developers are mostly anonymous among the millions - they have no identity there. This is the point of stickers on laptops, as with music shirts, a shortcut to identity.
If you take care of your body there is no reason you can't mountain bike, climb or surf at 65. I'm willing to bet there are people over 65 doing all those things much better than you are currently able to.
> I'm willing to bet there are people over 65 doing all those things much better than you are currently able to.
Of course this is true, but my chances of being fit enough to engage in those activities at 65 go down with the passage of time, and from many factors outside of my control (accidents, major illnesses, something else...)
But there's a more subtle point. By the time I'm 65 I may not want to surf or mountain bike, but I do now.
I need to retire the 20 year old me, the 30 year old me, the 40 year old me .... so that I can enjoy some freedom at each stage of my life.
By the time I'm 65, I literally won't be the same person anymore.
Then decide right now that you want to be fit enough 30 years from now to mountain bike <insert local singletrack here>. What does that take? Probably the ability to pedal a bike with a heart rate of 150 for 3 hours. What does that take? You going out and riding a bike for 3 hours per day 2-3 times per week, every week until then. There ya go.
Not saying don't take the time to enjoy life now, but don't sell your future self short. Especially on fitness. I feel like it's "ok" to be unfit after 35 the way it's "ok" to be bad at math. Like somehow society agreed that both of those just don't matter.
The real problem is we have mechanized so much. Granted, machines can let us do so many things that would be utterly impossible without them, but the problem is we've allowed them to _substitute_ our natural labor and not to just _extend_ it.
Continuing to work is probably good for a man's health if he has no (physical) activities he enjoys and no or very few friends. I agree with this.
That men end up in such a situation is probably due to the fact that too many of us focus obsessively on a single relationship to one person and then give up in the process their social life, their activities and hobbies.
And when the relationship ends for whatever reason you'll have nothing left in your life. That seems dangerous to me.
Instead I try hard to keep my social network alive and meet new people just as hard as I try to keep my relationship alive.
I believe this is what most women are doing anyways. It's also telling that this article is only about men. It's as if men are following subconsciously some kind of misguided role model that will get them to a point where it is most likely even better to continue working into their 70ties or 80ties than retiring.
most people work hard for many hours a week, give up lots of stuff, so they can retire. The trouble is doing this means you give up having a life, and so when you retire you have nothing else. What's even worse is if you do this, then your health suffers. I don't know how many people i've known who do this and then get really angry that they're retired but don't have the health to do the things they always waited for.
Me I work a reasonable number of hours have holidays and breaks, I'm middle aged. I'm not planning to retire, in many ways I sort of am. I do the work I like, have people around me I want to keep. Look after my health, know what my kids are doing. I'm lucky that I can do the work I like, and get paid for it, but I've made choices to avoid the soul sucking super highly paid stuff. I'm pleased with my choices, I'd recommend them to anyone younger.
Saying this, there are times I've worked hard, and times I've had in between. Just working then retiring, then dying sucks imho
In your experience do you find retiring women equally struggling to adjust?
In part in the UK it may be that men have to work until later in life but it appears to me that men struggle much more than women with old-age retirement. That's based on observations of my parents and their group of friends, a disproportionate number of whom were teachers.
I feel like this is a problem our whole life however it is only once we retire that we are forced to confront it. Until then we are able to avoid dealing with a lack of fulfilling activities outside of work, limited social connections and a weak sense of identity outside of work by simply working more. When we retire that coping mechanism goes away and you are left with no hobbies, a weak social network and a weak self image.
Personally, I strongly recommend trying cutting your work commitments to something like 20 hours per week. Do this for a year or so. It will give you a chance to realize that many of the things you previously did whenever you got the chance (sleeping in etc) become extremely boring when you can do them all the time.
After a while you will likely start to crave some sense of structure and accomplishment and the sooner you start filling the void outside of your work the better. Having a meaningful existence outside of your job will make you happier both now and in retirement.