Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit login

Are native apps more popular than the web? Probably not. Is it harder to make a web app to the same level of quality as a native app? Absolutely.

Making a "proper responsive website" for mobile is far more difficult than it needs to be. Assuming it can even be done. Some things you simply can't do. Can you reach just short of native quality by expending significantly more time and effort? Yes! Is that stupid and wasteful? Absolutely.




It's definitely hard to do animations and touch interactions as good as native apps. Making responsive websites is really really easy for an experienced designer and/or html coder.


> Making responsive websites is really really easy for an experienced designer and/or html coder.

Migrating old websites that do not respond + adapting web based apps to mobile is however, not very easy. These two cases are probably 90% of the use cases, as opposed to the other 10% that are "really really easy".


You can't retro fit responsiveness. Or at least you can, but it's such a bad idea that no one should try it. It's the quickest route to legacy CSS that no one will every want to touch again.

It means starting again, from design and UX all the way up to build. So for the entity that owns the website/web app it's going to be painful, but for every new website/web app, it's the norm and is pretty easy.


I agree with you, but you could say that about any site migration though, right? It's never easy to pull an old site forward to a new design/structure, responsive or not. That's been a huge pain point for as long as large sites have existed.


I disagree simply because almost major website has significant usability issues with mobile. Often relating to touch input. I'm genuinely surprised anytime an image gallery is swipeable and it even half works.

It's easy to say that obviously they are shitty designers and/or coders and all they have to do is take the time to do it right. Well doing it right takes too much effort. And doing it right still doesn't get you all the way there. For any site with even a moderate degree of complexity there are always little bugs. It's just a fact of life in the HTML/CSS world.


> Well doing it right takes too much effort.

Who told you that? It doesn't take any more effort than a normal desktop site given the right tools.


No person said it with words. Websites said it with their behavior.

There isn't even a widely supported, idiomatic way to switch between high dpi and low dpi images for crying out loud. It's been at least 5 years since such devices were common and wide spread.


That's not a good enough indicator - it is removed from important context that may be relevant.


img srcset + a polyfill?


> No person said it with words. Websites said it with their behavior.

No doubt, the majority of mobile websites need their asses kicked.


This. And don't forget fastclick.

https://github.com/ftlabs/fastclick


Off-topic but fastclick is mostly uncessary at this point: http://developer.telerik.com/featured/300-ms-click-delay-ios...


"Mostly" - but iOS 8 makes it mandatory, not?

"That being said, it is unfortunate that we still need to include a JavaScript library to workaround a limitation of the mobile web."

Thanks for the great link though!


Note that this behavior is already default in mobile web frameworks such as jQuery Mobile.


Right. But I guess I can't include jQuery Mobile alongside jQuery on a fully responsive app (no specific mobile version at this point of time), can I?


Why would you not be able to use jQuery Mobile alongside jQuery in a fully responsive app?


Absolutely. I think the disconnect is when some people compare native vs. web, they mean a web app that closely mimics a native app. That's absolutely hard to do, and often not worth the effort. But building a responsive website that simply functions well even if it doesn't try to feel native on every platform is not a major undertaking.


> That's absolutely hard to do, and often not worth the effort.

I'm not sure I agree. The JS libs are out there, you just need to find them.


My GitHub search skills aren't the best, but here are some of the nicer ones I've found:

Dynamic Physics Interactions for the Mobile Web: https://github.com/luster-io/impulse

Facebook and Path style side menus: https://github.com/jakiestfu/Snap.js/

Smooth scrolling: https://github.com/cubiq/iscroll

Add to home screen call-out for mobile devices: https://github.com/cubiq/add-to-homescreen

Cross-browser usage of the JavaScript Fullscreen API: https://github.com/sindresorhus/screenfull.js/

Anybody know of any more?


To underbluewaters' example of just getting a simple recipe on the screen, building a mobile-friendly page to display that kind of content is certainly not hard. For example, this is a recipe page that I personally worked on a few months ago (sorry, we didn't have a chicken tikka masala recipe...): http://tailgating.publix.com/recipes/29/caramel-hickory-chic...

On my phone, that page is every bit as quick as a native app. The presentation doesn't suffer. It's actually quite a bit better than many native apps I've had the misfortune of installing.

More importantly, the content is actually discoverable from web search. The alternative is forcing the user to choose a recipes app from an opaque app store search, wait to download/install it, then search in that single silo of content and hope it has the content they want. Then, rinse/repeat if they don't find a recipe they like. Even if they happen to find a nice native app on the first try that does have a good UI, good content, and the specific content they want, that is a vastly inferior experience.

Can you create a poor mobile web experience? Sure. The situation isn't very much different than janky, slow desktop sites that are laden with too many third-party scripts for ads, tracking, social, etc. Mobile does exacerbate the effect of that kind of sloppiness, but I think that stems from sites where content is secondary to advertising/social, not the feasibility or difficulty of creating a good mobile web experience.

I was going to add a disclaimer to the link above asking folks to be gentle if they peeked under the hood, because I developed that site in an insanely short amount of time for how much content and functionality is there, but maybe that's an important data point in and of itself. If it were so difficult to develop a decent mobile web experience, there's no way I could have shipped that full site in about two weeks of billable hours. Not to mention, we focused a lot more on the desktop layout than mobile, based on analytics. I wouldn't say mobile was an afterthought, but the phone layout was a fairly small fraction of the overall effort.


That app's nav menu feels sticky when you're closing it.


It's definitely not perfect. Like I mentioned, it was developed on an incredibly tight budget/timeframe. I wish I'd had budget to polish several things like that throughout the site.

I do still think a user that searches the web for a hickory chicken tailgating recipe is still a lot better served by even that imperfect mobile web page than the alternative native workflow though. Not to say that native isn't ever a better choice for some types of apps, of course, but content like this is exactly the web's sweet spot.

(BTW, I've been playing with React lately and am loving it; great work. Looking forward to giving React Native a shot at replacing Cordova for some of my clients)




Consider applying for YC's Spring batch! Applications are open till Feb 11.

Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: