For Californians, what gays do in California isn't "over there". It's "right here".

You seem to be trying very hard to make pro-gay marriage arguments (and not succeeding at all, I should add), but you're arguing with people who agree with you on the political issue. I'm trying to help explain the phenomenon, which may provide a stepping stone to figuring out how to best convince people like chc's friends and family.

By the same token, are the don't-redefine-marriage people who live in Vegas trying to shut down the Elvis Chapel?

I've given up trying to convince people like chc's friends and family.

> By the same token, are the don't-redefine-marriage people who live in Vegas trying to shut down the Elvis Chapel?

I don't know. Are they? I'm not really abreast of Las Vegas politics.

> I've given up trying to convince people like chc's friends and family.

What are you hoping to achieve with this conversation, then? Moral high ground?

Trying to point out the silliness of the "redefine marriage" argument, I guess. Feel free to ignore me.