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How My Start-Up Failed (stanford.edu)
330 points by mijustin on Jan 5, 2013 | hide | past | favorite | 101 comments



Like Edison and the lightbulb, like Gates and the pc operating system...I was about to become the first person in America to sell condom key chains.

That was probably your first mistake. Neither of your heroes succeeded by being first with a great new product. They won through ruthless competition (some may even say cheating), unfair advantages, endless promotion, and competing in the courtroom and legislature as much as in the marketplace.

Perhaps Googling things like "Nikola Tesla" or "CP/M" or reading http://theoatmeal.com/comics/tesla may have changed your business plan.


To be fair, this guy also was not the first with a great new product; he had found the exact product he wanted to sell abroad.


Interesting to know about Tesla and Edison. I've always seen somewhat similar parallel between Jobs and Wozniak. For all his greatness, I always see Jobs as an overrated CEO and Wozniak as underrated geek.


I fail to see how Wozniak is underrated. On the opposite, the media likes to pick up whatever he says about today's technology and portray him as the real genius overshadowed by “marketer” Jobs, although Wozniak's last contribution to the field was two decades ago and he has no relation to Apple's success as we know it today. He deserves praise for what he'd done but I'd argue his contributions are rarely, if ever, underrated, and often the opposite.



Just tell me one more thing. Who consistently shipped more?


Tesla vs. Edison? From what I know, Tesla.

Jobs vs. Wozniak? Jobs. Easily.


Saying that Steve Jobs shipped frequently than Wozniak is like saying the manager of a software team ships more frequently than the programmers who wrote it, since he is the one who sends out the 'release notification email'.


Actually what he's referring to is that Woz basically made the Apple 1, made the Apple 2, and then, having produced two once-in-a-lifetime masterworks, essentially retired.

Jobs, though less technically useful on any one hands-on task, never retired even after getting rich. He just kept shipping, ultimately an order of magnitude more projects and a way more grandiose total portfolio.


And who helped him keep shipping? Or did you forget the thousands of other workers at Apple? Let's get real.


Where by "real" you mean what, exactly?

"Out of Jobs and Wozniak who shipped more?" "thousands of other apple workers because I don't like Jobs" ?


No. Apple and its products are the result of countless hours of work from thousands of employees. Step out the damn reality distortion field already.


Step out the damn reality distortion field already.

Likewise.

Who do you think built and rebuilt the aforementioned company?

The thousands of people who worked on Apple producs acknowledge that Jobs was fundamental because of is hyper focus and vision.

If you stop hating the man you might learn a thing or two.


I don't hate anyone. In fact, I respect Steve a whole lot for pursuing his passion and vision for technology. I just hate the lies people believe. Shipping involves more than any one individual. It's an ongoing collaborative process. Read up:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-20124720-37/jonathan-ive-s...


Well, I shouldn't. But I'm gonna bite this one anyway. Who recognized Jonny Ive's talent and gave him a promotion?

Anyway, I think the reality distortion field you previously referred is in fact a hyperbole machine created by the media outlets. I don't like it too as it only serves to increases the distance between us and real facts just for the sake of getting some viewers.

The real reality distortion field [0][1] was born as a complement and caution, referring to Steve's epic focus, indomitable will, and eagerness to get things done. When well applied, it can be an incredible tool to shift paradigms.

[0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_distortion_field

[1] Steve Jobs biography, Chapter 11


I like how Miguel de Icaza put it[0]:

>"Reality Distortion Field" is a modern day cop out. A tool used by men that lack the intellectual curiosity to explain the world, and can deploy at will to explain excitement or success in the market place. Invoking this magical super power saves the writer from doing actual work and research. It is a con perpetuated against the readers.

>...

>The biography has some interesting anecdotes, but fails to answer any of these questions. The biographer was not really interested in understanding or explaining Steve Jobs. He collected a bunch of anecdotes, stringed them together in chronological order, had the text edited and cashed out.

>Whenever the story gets close to an interesting historical event, or starts exploring a big unknown of Steve's work, we are condescendingly told that "Steve Activated the Reality Distortion Field".

>Every. Single. Time.

>Not once did the biographer try to uncover what made people listen to Steve. Not once did he try to understand the world in which Steve operated. The breakthroughs of his work are described with the same passion as a Reuters news feed: an enumeration of his achievements glued with anecdotes to glue the thing together.

>...

>The "Reality Distortion Field" is not really a Steve Jobs super-power, it is a special super power that the technical press uses every time they are too lazy to do research.

[0]: http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2012/Nov-07.html


Let's give a chance to Andy Hertzfeld, so he can explain in his own words [0] why, how, and where the term was born.

[0] http://folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story...


I'm not an SJ lover, but this is one case where we can see Apple with and without Jobs. Apple was nearly out of business when he took back the helm. To ignore that the leader has a huge amount to do with the success of any group is to ignore human history. You're also ignoring the stories of SJ who by all accounts was obsessive compulsive with shipping over all else. Do you really think that his attitude towards shipping didn't permeate through the entire organization?


I like a lot of the stuff Matthew Inman has done, but I wouldn't suggest citing his Tesla comic if you're trying to make a point about Edison v. Tesla.


I quit my business january the first. I sold people. Actual people including kids, grandma's, six-pack's and what not as models for agency's and photographers. My company was different: You could select people like you can cars: Size, color, tattoos and a location. I sold people including all the royalties, like a Shutterstock for people with a fixed price (no matter how well known the client is). I had everything worked out: a simple signup process, legal protection for models (no nudity) and a legal framework for clients and my own company.

I upset the expensive agencies (boy were some mad at me), but ultimately failed because I underestimated how far people will go to get something for "free". People would rather spend 8 of their own hours finding friends, neighbors, relatives to use as a model, than select a perfect local model and pay him or her a few bucks. I work for a design agency for the biggest names you can think of but even those PR-people would rather throw away 8 of their own hours and work with shitty contracts if it could save them a few dimes.

Of course becoming blind didn't help. Thank God the doctors got my vision back, but if you're a one-person-company shit like that can certainly kill your company. But that's not why I failed. I failed because I thought I could use greed and let people save a lot of money. Turns out people were even more greedy (or dumber?) than I thought.

A few screenshots (as the site is offline): http://imgur.com/4JMDS http://i.imgur.com/63e4Z.png


Yup, even the smallest price creates a huge barriere for most people. Personally I'd rather throw some money at problems than waste my precious time, but everyone is different.

P.s. groetjes uit holland! ;)


Yup even though they would be spending some money in order to save a lot of time and money. Did great with finding models but not good enough with the agency's. OT: Just read your blog and like to know if you've got something up and running already?


Not yet! I haven't been able to work on my project lately because I'm too busy with my graduation and freelancing, but I stopped freelancing now to work on my project full-time. I hope to release it around March :-)

It will be a platform (non-SaaS) targeted at the US, and I've got Microsoft sponsoring my cloud hosting, doing my marketing, etc.

Oh, I did create a few Windows 8 apps in the meanwhile, that also stole quite some time from my main project. I created the first and only wordfeud solver for example: http://apps.microsoft.com/windows/en-us/app/scrabble-solver/... (I earned only €13 with it so it isn't a great business idea, but I was fun to build).


Good to see you're sharpening your skills and knowledge "in the real word" and you'e not just studying.

I can really identify with 2nd/3rd projects 'stealing' time from the main project. I'm like that as well. It's a bit of a trap but when you're always full of ideas it feels good to check them out as well. (And it's easy to become bored when you've worked on project for a long time).

I did a extensive personality test once and it showed I need the challenge. If I don't get it I will deliberately make projects more difficult by delaying work or trying to find new and exciting ways to accomplish something. Anything but boring, repetitive work!


Which markets were you focusing on? I would assume this would work well here in California, based on the need for stock photos and models in the LA & Bay Area. From what I gather in your writing, the choices were having a companies own PR-people waste hours of their billable time or have to go out to an expensive agency to get models, while you provided a service that catered to the middle market?


This grind feels very familiar. I joined a product company when it was at this stage and can say that this guy's story resembles our own quite a bit. The difference, though, was that we did not shut down shop because we had a little bit of debt. We kept going, are still going, and after more than two years in business are finally beginning to see some traction. The truth is, building a consumer product is just not easy. It takes time to build channels! The struggles that the author had were completely to be expected... every business has its quirks that you can't know until you're waist deep.


Contrary to the 'fail fast' mantra: the definition of a successful business is that it is one whose backers didn't give up before it gained traction.

Underestimating the time it takes to get off the ground is a very frequent cause of business death.


I look at the guys over at Weebly as prime examples of this. David spoke at Startup School this year and said that for something like 4 or 5 years they didn't really experience much success. They kept at it and now they power something like 2% of all sites on the internet!


"Though I had a Stanford MBA and regularly consulted on multimillion-dollar projects, I didn't know the first thing about starting a business."


Ironic that the number 4 story on HN right now is: "All I learned in college was how to work for someone else"


He probably learned more about business from this venture than $10,000 of business education would have given him. I've also lost that much on a venture once, and the irony is that like his business it was also a potentially profitable and viable business and may have succeeded if we had the experience to approach it differently.


Seems like everything he learnt should have been common sense.

- Do better market research

- Do the maths before proceeding

- Know all the ins and outs with shipping your product

- Don't give your product away


Some of it is not really common sense, because people make these mistakes all the time. I suspect the main mistake he has made, and this happens very often, is that in order to get a decent margin on his product he had to order a fairly large quantity. This broke two things, one not being able to test out the product to determine if that is what the market wants, the other is not to get the hang of all the things that can go wrong with importing goods. I think he was particularly lucky to get it through customs so quickly.



Looks nice. How hard was it to break the glass?


This is slashdot^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H Hacker News, the issue never came up.


"My love affair with my product soon began to fade. The key chains would not come clean. No matter how much I scrubbed, they still felt as though a posse of banana slugs had just oozed over them."

Not a stanford chemist I take it?


Like so many startup ideas, this could probably be a great idea for somebody who can actually execute it. I feel like a jerk saying this, but this seems like a recurring theme lately - people saying "the market was too small" when the reality that they needed a huge target because their execution was near non-existent.


Amazing story and the ending was great. I'm also not sure many of the commenters are aware that this happened in 1999


In the end he lost 10k. How is that great?

And thanks for pointing the date out, I had missed that!


by ending was great, I meant that the last sentence was a great editorial ending to the story. The fact that he lost 10k is not great, but overall a great piece on his startup.


I'll tell you the story of how one of my startups died.

Some years ago, I was looking for the next business the start. Being one of those serial entrepreneurs, I was used to searching for products that could be easily marketed by me. I'm one of those weirdos who enjoys to program and enjoys marketing. Anyhow, I found my next product on a magazine article. There it was, all shiny and plasticky. Why? Because it was actual plastic. Or better yet, shrink wrapping plastic. The one used to cover botas during winter.

The magazine article talked about a business in Arizona who was shrink repo'd houses, cars, boats, equipment, etc. They were doing a fine job with all the people going bankrupt, and all the banks needing a way to keep their properties in good shape for re-sell. I did some market research and it was a viable business to do locally. There were plenty of things to shrink wrap.

The shrink wrap was sourced from a distributor in Michigan. It was dirt cheap, and would allow me to mark it up without fear. Each sq. foot cost me around fifteen cents, and I would sell it for three dollars. Problem was the shipping. I reside in the Caribbean. The plastic had to travel all the way down from Michigan, get on a plane, and to my doorstep. The costs tripled, but the nice margin kept things at bay.

I went off to market it the product and made a huge first sale. It was for about $2k worth of shrink wrap. It was to wrap industrial machinery that was being shipped overseas to Zeus knows where. I got so excited by the "sale" that I ordered a roll of shrink wrap without taking a deposit or a purchase order number (the sale was for a local construction company). The client was actually pressuring me to get the material so they could ship it out. It was a safe bet, or so I thought.

The plastic arrives a couple days later, and its a heavy sumbitch. I pushed and pushed until it was resting in my garage. I call the client and let him know that everything is ready to. He replies by stating that everything will be setup for me to go and do the shrink wrapping. Awesome!

But wait. He asks for my proof of insurance. Yes. I had forgotten to check with the local insurance company to see if they would insure me. So I told him that I would process the insurance, but to go ahead and schedule, because I was sure someone would step forward and insure me. After contacting every insurance agency, pawn shop, church, and barber shop on the island, my dreams of being the shrink wrap king were fading away.

I call the client and let him know that no one would insure it. Surprisingly, he told me that they were so needy of the product (I was the only person offering the service locally), that they would take the risk. At the end of that phone call he said "I'll call you back when it setup."

One week passes. Two weeks. On the third week I call him. He says they were having trouble scheduling access to the equipment, but to not fear, because they need it to do it. I wait another week and he calls. Finally!

That was not a good phone call. They had sold the equipment to a local, and would not be needing my product. I did not have an agreement, deposit or anything. There was no way to get them to pay, and it was a waste of time.

From that experience, I created my party-pooper business checklist. It has all sorts of questions that I must answer before even thinking about investing my time or money into anything. It has saved me countless headaches, and resources. It keeps my serial entrepreneur in check, and forces me to think about every little bit before doing anything. Sadly, it cannot predict when people will scam me. I've had people in the valley scam me out of work, just like every freelancer out there. It sucks, but each time it happens I get to learn from it. One thing you get to learn after doing business for as long as I've been doing it, is that bad shit is going to happen no matter what. You are going to get scammed by people who sell you their close association to YC-funded company (which I thought made their project more legit, but it doesn't), and you will make costly mistakes. Being really good at marketing doesn't save me from those things. But anyhow, realize that you will make mistakes. Those mistakes do not define you, but teach you. Failure is all but guaranteed. So have fun, learn, and don't take it personal. After all, like the founder of a startup that scammed me not long ago, its business and not personal.


Great story. Would you mind sharing with the HN community your checklist? I'm sure we could all learn something from that... or maybe would make a nice blog post?


I will include it on a book that I'm writing. Don't call me a spammer, because the book will be available to read for free online. Once its done, I'll post it here.


you should sell it.


Yes, sell 50,000 copies at a gross margin of 150% at a net loss of $10,000 ;)


In all seriousness, if you've already put in the effort to write a book, it's pretty hard to lose money selling it through a print-on-demand service. (It might be hard to make money, but it's pretty damn hard to lose money.)


You can easily lose money if you value the time spent writing the book and get paid nothing / less than you could have earned elsewhere for it.


I said if you've already put in the effort to write the book, in which case that effort is a sunk cost.


There is more to life than money. Writing such a book allows me to share my wealth of knowledge. So what if I don't make a million dollars out of it? That's not the purpose. I want others to benefit so they can grow their businesses. And in turn create new opportunities for others.


You can't lose net money if you originally planned to publish it for free, though.


Your startup died because 1, O-N-E deal did not work out? How many other people did you try to sell to?


I was not able to acquire insurance coverage. Could not continue.


Is that required by some local law? Or was that insurance needed for your clients to trust your product?


It was not required by law. I wanted insurance, because the shrink wrapping process used an open flame to shrink the plastic. It reacted to heat. I could have continued without it, but it was too much risk (for all involved).


Both your and the op story reminded me of the British TV show Only Fools and Horses.


Out of curiosity, where does all the used shrink wrap go when winter is over? I'm picturing a whole house's worth of plastic wrap ending up in a landfill or floating its way out to trash island in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, and it makes me throw up a little bit in my mouth.

Anyway, thanks for sharing the story -- a good case study to learn from -- but I hope for the sake of humanity that this business of shrink-wrapping boats and houses is a thing of the past.


It is recyclable. The clients would put the plastic in a special recycling bag. I love my planet too much to damage it like that. Even so, that I stopped driving my truck and now cycle everywhere.


An important part of any business model is how to deal with by-products (aka waste).


I wish this were true, but it doesn't seem to have adversely affected roughly all startups in the history of business.


Apart from all the industries, services and products that exist because of by-products and waste, you are correct. Businesses don't have to worry about waste and can still be successful. However, I'd argue that eating healthy and exercising is an important part of any life. You can still have a good life if you don't, but the benefits are well documented and very clear.


Would you mind sharing this party pooper business check list?


I really hate these badly designed web sites: "Sorry, we are unable to supply content for this web page, either because the Internet security on your browser is set to high, or because you have disabled Javascript. For information on how to change these settings in your browser, please see the Help page"


Life is short, the art long. Enable Javascript and live dangerously.


You should call the article "How My Business Failed", because that what it was.

If I opened a restaurant, even if on a new set of dishes, no one will call it a start-up, and it can be a huge business.

PG: "A startup is a company designed to grow fast. Being newly founded does not in itself make a company a startup. Nor is it necessary for a startup to work on technology, or take venture funding, or have some sort of "exit." The only essential thing is growth. Everything else we associate with startups follows from growth."


"Though I had a Stanford MBA and regularly consulted on multimillion-dollar projects, I didn't know the first thing about starting a business."

This guy was awarded a Stanford MBA and didn't know that you had to have paperwork to import goods from Thailand? Am I missing something?


Case studies are more about management, less about paperwork.


I wonder if fellow news readers can chime in as to what are the boundary conditions to let go and shut down a service. Some services have survived through waves of investment cycles - ie flickr etc, others vanished and are not remembered by but a few.

There are couple of scenarios I am currently involved in. One is sort of bootstrapping traveler assistance service - this one is bootstrapped but with fairly large - 10 people editorial staff. The other is my small project that I am interested in using myself. The third one is a job style project that is suppose to break open a new market in the internet retail and has been running for already a month...

Qualitatively there are different reason for closing a startup - boreddom, disinterest, lack of funds, the growth curve is too slow. From my understanding startup is not a company but a place to invest money in - that has a vertical market and near future potential for geometric function style growth and if it isn't happening startup isn't a startup anymore... but there are so many stories out there of people sticking it out for 2 years and others giving up in 3-6 months...

It would be nice to have some sort of coherent picture when to give up and when to soldier on evolving product, adding users - trying new things...

links to resources are welcome! TIA!


There are quite a few quantitative indicators for businesses on exit conditions; for web businesses in particular, see eg: http://viniciusvacanti.com/2011/12/12/when-do-you-throw-in-t...


much appreciated thanks!


"Though I had a Stanford MBA and regularly consulted on multimillion-dollar projects, I didn't know the first thing about starting a business. "

Truth. The only way to learn how to start a business is to start one, mess up, and keep going.


Whenever someone comes to me with a physical consumer product idea, I tell them to go read MouseDriver Chronicles first. The authors went through similar experience with golf driver head shaped mouse. It is an interesting read.

http://www.amazon.com/The-MouseDriver-Chronicles-Adventures-...


Reading suggestion for him: Lean Startup.

He went with an idea that needs to be validated (I don't find obvious that condom key chains are a sure kill ...) and instead tries to produce 10,000 of them the first time. Wow.


Lean Startup is really hard to apply to this kind of business. Even when he had them made 10k at a time, he was only able to eke out 75 cents of profit on each one. If he tried a smaller batch, the production costs would have eaten him alive.

That said, I could see making a first batch knowing it will sell at a loss just to test the market.


Yep, he should have hand-made early protos, sold them to people, and iterated. He would have found out that people want real working condoms much sooner (I mean, duh, right?).

The airplane cargo pressure thing was an oversight that I would have made too, except it shows that he never tried shipping even 1 sample from an Asian supplier to him before, or the issue would have been detected sooner at essentially no cost.


Condoms near any sharp object like keys seems a very bad idea to me, great story though.


Condoms near any sharp object like keys seems a very bad idea to me

There goes carrying a condom around in my pockets... (no wait marriage took care of that one)

These were encased in hard plastic, I'm pretty sure they were safer then most condom transportation mechanisms.


Probably a little too safe.


But is the manufacturing process safe for the condom? I.e. won't damage it.


Nice story, a little too long though and I'd have liked bigger and sharper pics of the actual products.

What seems very obvious to me or maybe I didn't get the point: Carrying a key chain with a condom is more than just a key chain, it's a statement. It somehow says in a very obtrusive way that you want to f$%#, that you are anytime ready to f$%#, yeah it just says that you are so desperate and unf$%#$% that any f$%# is welcome. And that's definitely not the way to get laid (for men at least).

Sorry, but who should buy this? 12yr old kids?

However, I think that the OP learned a lot, so it should have been a good entrepreneurial experience in any case.


>Sorry, but who should buy this?? Maybe 12yr old kids?

I take it you've never seen college boys (or even some young professionals in certain areas) wearing shirts with slogans such as this one (http://i.imgur.com/4vt3m.jpg).

Somewhat related, these (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truck_nuts) are also quite popular in Texas.

(in case you're located outside the US- American culture, despite its puritan roots and persistent culture, is quite open about crass jokes in that spirit)


That shirt reminds me of one of my favorite PBF comics: http://pbfcomics.com/90/


Valid points, maybe I am too far away from these targets.


I see those on quite a few trucks in East Texas. I can't believe people actually do that.


I had to tell my dad (non american, first saw them when he helped me move across the country) what they were. It is now his favorite anecdote to tell about Texas :)


The people who wear those shirts are not the ones who end up "getting laid".. In addition, people who cary condoms around , usually have more than one. These keychains would have been better off positioned as a novelty item than a serious way to have safe sex.


You have no proof for those two claims.


I think this underscores the need to have smart advisors. I could see myself making similar mistakes; to avoid them, consult people who have done stuff similar to what you're trying to do. It seems most of these issues could have been prevented if the author had consulted folks in his MBA network and gotten their advice on what he should do in his business, on pricing, on setting expectations for how hard it is to launch a successful product like this, on importing, and on general advice. Who knows--he might even have gotten a smart business partner to help him sort through these tough issues.


Because you can't even display a fail story without requiring JavaScript? :-(


Now all he needs to do is get on Shark Tank.


i think this venture took place 20+ years ago. His MBA was from 1984, and in the story he says he was a freshly minted MBA.


Yup. This was originally published in Summer of 1999.


Or as his resume states: his shrink-wrap app business was wrecked by an incursion of trojans.


They forgot to say "Are the condoms any good? Our condoms are f*ing great!"


Great story. Very good idea. I'm sure it was a good learning experience.


Winners don't quit. Quitters don't win.


What if you gamble some money and then quit gambling. You're a winner that quit!


But if you never win and you never quit you're doing something wrong


My whole internet business was failing until I learned SEO.


Story?


Lesson: Shoulda joined YC. Then it would have succeeded.




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