Also what annoys me is how much friction airlines have added to the whole process. They want you there early, but too early and you wont have anywhere to sit. Show up a little later and it's a cluster trying to check a bag. Then boarding times are always wrong. Everyone rushes and blocks the lines. Process takes longer too when everyone brings all their luggage as carry on and argues about gate checking.
>> Also what annoys me is how much friction airlines have added to the whole process.
My biggest pet peeve is how they call groups successively, but dont actually let the lines exhaust before calling the next group. Successive groups realize that the lines are all mixed up, and people stop honoring groups and just all jump into line. Chaos ensues.
Also, everyone has a carry-on since checked bags now universally cost extra, but there's never enough space for all the carry-ons, so everyone's quietly jockeying to not be the last twenty people in line.
I also do this, especially if you have assigned seats and are flying light, there is no reason to be the first person on the plane unless you like sitting and doing nothing for 45 minutes.
I'm skeptical how much charges for check-in have to do with it. People traveling on business almost universally don't want the time overhead (and risk of delayed luggage) associated with checking bags even though they could expense it or often get free checked bags through status anyway.
I've been having fun with people putting their bags in the compartments marked "emergency exit seats" and then being surprised their bag is put in the hold when mine is put in instead of theirs. (Since you cannot have luggage under your seat there some airline have a reserved bin for the ee seats)
Yeah but you already packed lighter and more constrained and hauled your carryon all the way to the plane, so it feels obnoxious to then have to surrender the one advantage of carryon other than price (not having to wait for your luggage at the carousel) after you've already accepted all the disadvantages.
Not anymore. As of last year, if you try to board earlier than your zone is called, the scanner won’t accept it and the FA will tell you to go to the back of the line. This is at least on Delta. I read other airlines are also being more strict
The best strategy is to go to the bathroom when they call boarding and mosey on over whenever you like. Its easier to board as one of the last few vs the first. No one in the aisle and you can identify your potential seat from across the plane.
I would much rather be situated in my window seat early. I don’t have to worry about people mistakenly or purposefully taking my seat and waiting for them to move or wait for people to stand up for me to get my seat.
If I get a free upgrade to first class, I can already be sipping on my free prs board alcoholic beverage.
Board first, board last, all good choices for people. However, a mass of people chaotically at a boarding gate is so shameful -- Computer Science has solved these problems already with priority queues, and the airline industry should catch up. Perhaps airlines should just mandate leetcode.
I do remember being on business in East Asia and how orderly these things operated.
There are priority queues at least with Delta to a point.
- people needing extra time
- military
And then they are call by Zones
- 1st class boards first sho are at the front of the plane (Zone 1)
I think zone 2 is Diamond medallion. More than likely unless they bought a last minute ticket on a full plane, they would at least be C+
- Comfort+ boards next who are behind first class (Zone 3)
- Gold Medallion boards next and they are in the main cabin (Zone 4)
Those four zones above have a dedicated lane and should have plenty of overhead space close to their seat.
Below those four is where the upheaval starts especially if you fly out of Orlando like I do now with a lot of infrequent fliers. At that point, everyone is Main cabin jockeying for position and overhead space.
Even then Zone 5 isn’t bad. You get that by either having a cobranded credit card or being the lowest medallion level - Silver
Here in Ireland nobody cares what the gate agents say on the announcement. People start lining up way before the flight and just get on the plane. It sucks because if you need overhead room you are stuck standing for at least an hour. I’ve seen American boarding agents boarding Irish return flights getting frustrated that people aren’t listening, and they are faced with either creating a big incident or just acquiescing.
It works so much better when there is a system and everyone follows it.
>Process takes longer too when everyone brings all their luggage as carry on and argues about gate checking.
I would be more willing to check bags if they return your baggage right after the flight, instead of losing the bags on a connecting flight and shipping it back to me a week later.
This.
In some places you used to be able to check your bags in advance. In Switzerland you could even check your bags at your local train station the day before so that you could just go to your flight and breeze through the airport.
That doesn't really solve the problem of your bag not arriving at destination. So far my ratio is 3 out of 14 that had bagage problems when I didn't bring them in with me as carry on.
If you fly multiple hops, there is no way to guarantee this, service quality varies wildly ie across Europe.
Some airports are known to be 'black holes' for luggage, from dealings with Swissport who handles lost&found everywhere, they mentioned that Fiumicino airport near Rome didn't have stellar reputation to say politely, and Barcelona wasn't that great neither. Had luggage lost on both in rather annoying way - both of them didn't have a clue where it was for more than a week, started saying goodbye to all rather costly equipment like paraglider set in it.
But I've seen stuff get lost in places like Vienna multiple times, so one can't draw any simple conclusions. I see it as a massive room for improvement and automation via 'AI', but that should have been done a decade ago, ie automated barcode scanning isn't novel tech.
It does seem to have improved in general. (From a small sample size as I don't check luggage unless I have to.) United's baggage tracking in their app seems pretty reliable and I toss in an AirTag as a backup which also works well.
That has definitely improved. My bags used to get lost (well, more delayed than lost) nearly every time I connected through Paris CDG. Now it's been a long time since that has happened.
It's by design. Airlines, like most industries these days have decided that it's no longer "Profitable" to serve regular folks, so they are pursuing the "Whale" strategy of re-orienting their entire service offering to exclusively cater to the 20% of their customers that drive 80% of their profits.
The experience of flying first class is better than it's ever been, and all that extra comfort, convenience and luxury has come 100% at the expense of the experience of the unwashed masses flying "Economy" class. First class gets lie flat beds, priority boarding, lobster thermidor and hot towels, while economy seats keep shrinking, boarding times get longer, checked baggage that used to be free costs $100, and a child-sized bag of peanuts costs $5.
The reason airline travel sucks so much these days is because it's supposed to. If you're flying economy class, the airlines literally see you as a burden, rather than a valued customer, and are doing everything in their power to make your experience as awful as possible, while squeezing every last penny out of you in the process.
My wife and I travel a lot as a hobby - well over a dozen times a year since Covid lifted.
For the frequent traveler who is loyal to an airline, a lot of those problems go away.
We are Delta loyalists and both Platinum Medallion.
1. When we buy a main cabin seat, we get upgraded immediately to Comfort+ for free.
2. When we go to the airport, if we don’t use curbside check in (and tip), we get to use the Sky Priority Checkin line and have two free checked bags
3. We have TSA Pre-Check and Clear to skip the line
4. After check-in, we head straight to the Delta, Amex Centurion or Priority Pass lounge where we have plenty of seating free food and drinks (alcoholic and non alcoholic)
5. When boarding, we get to board early because of our C+ upgrade (Zone 3) or worse case Zone 4 and have plenty of overhead space if we need it and get to be situated early.
Related: Am I the only one that lives in a (mid size and prosperous US city) and does not have a preferred airline company because my choice of operator depends on destination and availability rather than choosing one among many airlines for a given destination and date? The city I live in rhymes with “Charleston”.
Poorly worded question - I’m glad you guys know how to travel well together and often. The only thing I miss about my college girlfriend was when we got an overnight delay in Denver and the crazed associate told us “I don’t fucking know” when we asked about the details of our hotel she said: “I mean this sucks but it’ll be okay hahaha”
I try to perpetuate that mindset nowadays lol. End monologue
If you don’t fly often, airline loyalty doesn’t matter. I just don’t hate myself enough to fly Southwest and deal with non assigned seats even though they do have the most non stop flights from our current airport
>does not have a preferred airline company because my choice of operator depends on destination and availability
That's certainly the line that can't be compromised, ultimately you fly because you wanna get somewhere. But finding and choosing favorite airline(s) has many perks that aren't easily quantifiable, enough that many frequent flyers choose to focus their patronage for those benefits.
I'm personally a Delta fanboi because Northwest was my childhood airline on family vacations. My Delta SkyMiles account goes all the way back to 1998 when my dad opened it for me as a kid, back then it was Northwest WorldPerks.
Small tangent story: Delta SkyMiles was instrumental in my getting an AMEX credit card as my second ever card with merely 6 months credit history as a literal newcomer nobody to the credit world. It's been my favorite card to carry ever since.
Boston isn't a United hub but I can get to most places with a fairly reasonable flight option from there. The main exceptions are Raleigh (which is short enough that I don't care much) and London for which I change planes rather than take a BA non-stop.
Yes, having lots of money makes life easier. I don't have the networking skills to be management, so I'll continue to travel once every three years and be lucky for that.
Clear just helps you get to the front of the TSA Precheck line and its airport dependent and time of day whether it’s any faster than regular TSA Precheck + DigitalID.
But we are talking about $85 for five years for PreCheck.
But as far as security, the only difference pre check makes is that you don’t have to take your belt and shoes off.
I mentioned earlier that newer scanners don’t require you to take electronics out of your bag whether or not you have PreCheck
PreCheck probably makes less of a difference than it used to. But, as you say, if you fly any amount, getting PreCheck (or Global Entry which comes with PreCheck) is a drop in the bucket in terms of money.
I think PreCheck probably goes faster too because people with PreCheck mostly know the drill.
I did have to take my laptop out of my bag flying out of JFK the year before last and they said you could only have one electronic in your bag even with TSA Precheck.
That hasn’t happen before or since. At that time I had a client laptop, my company’s laptop (working in consulting), my iPad, and an external USB powered portable monitor in my carryon.
Before TSA existed we could get through security without paying the extra $85. Why doesn't the TSA just pre-check everyone? It just feels like a scam to me.
It's just more examples of enshittification over the decades. Nevermind the checkin, the premiums for first class are absurd (and nowadays there's at least 4 different tiers of flight, not just 2), you don't get free snacks anymore, seating is smaller, etc. Those times of treating customers with respected ended quite a while ago (except during COVID of course. But that's mostly over).
>customers with respected ended quite a while ago (except during COVID of course. But that's mostly over).
I definitely didn't feel respected during covid. There was a mask rule, standard for the time, fine. But then they give out drinks, okay. They were extremely strict, you must sip your drink and have your mask on again within less than a second. Long sips, unacceptable. Pause in your sip, unacceptable, there needs to then be two sips with an intermediate remasking. The air staff were quite 1930s Germany as far as the rigor of their enforcement of this rule. This has all the charm and beside manner of a driver laying on their horn 200ms after the red light turns green. Quite bizarre, the mask fetish, when most passengers were vaccinated and there's this huge vector of spreading the disease called touching things with pathogens on their surface aka fomites.
Where was this? When I travelled here in Europe we could just take our mask off while eating/drinking. No second rule. That would indeed be super annoying.
What I find annoying these days are those people who theatrically mask up and then look at you like you're supposed to do the same. Luckily it's very uncommon in aviation now. A bit more in the metro but they can just walk elsewhere if they want.
Absolutely. Why have any charge at all? Why is the government expecting me to pay for it? Fuck the poor I guess, they wait in line.
Why should I have to pay at all? Why not make everyone going through security pay $5 every time to recoup the costs for the TSA through user fees?
And it's not like it's only $70-85 every five years, it's per person so I'll have to buy for my whole family. Quite a bit more than just $70! And in the end it's all bullshit anyways. Just a way to sort people willing to give up the money versus those who don't know, don't want to, or can't pay.
Why should I pay for your TSA Precheck? Let’s be real though, we are only talking about taking your shoes off and belt. It won’t kill you to do that. If you have a disability that doesn’t enable you to do either, I’m sure they will make an exception.
And kids up to 17 don’t need Precheck if flying with a parent
Are you really complaining about spending $70 once every five years to give me TSA Precheck? You won't even notice paying for my Precheck.
Why should I pay for your usage of the TSA? Why not have all $7.55B entirely funded by direct user fees, handing the TSA agents cash or tap a credit card while you go through the scanner? Why should I pay for your airports (often constructed with massive tax subsidies and grants)? Why should I pay for the highways you drive on to go to your airport?
> we are only talking about taking your shoes off and belt.
No, we're also talking about stereoscopic facial scans, high resolution millimeter wave scans of my body, yet another centralized government database tracking my movements, having to showcase all my valuables to all the other passersby by dumping all the electronics out of my bag, wasting my time, wasting our tax dollars, for pretty much no benefit. Ooh but I can skip the line if I surrender more biometrics and pay extra! How nice!
> If that’s your concern, why would you want TSA Precheck where you have to give the government your fingerprints and go through a background check?
I'd rather just have practically none of it because it's largely a waste of money and time and a major inconvenience while providing practically little real security.
> Not getting blown out the sky is a pretty big benefit.
Tons of other countries have far more basic security at airports. They're not constantly having planes blown out of the sky. Airlines operated for decades before the formation of the TSA and millimeter wave scanners and taking off our shoes and stereoscopic face scans and yet they were not getting blown out of the sky.
- Amex Delta Platinum
Card - $350 Annual Fee and you get a companion pass - buy one get one free round trip ticket anywhere in the US, Mexico, Central America, or the Caribbean and a $150 hotel credit.
- Amex Delta Business - the same benefits except a $200 hotel credit.
- Amex Delta Reserve - an up to first class companion ticket and a $200 Hotel credit + lounge access.
It takes $15000 MQDs to reach Platinum Medallion. But if I flew less, I would only care about Silver Medallion where you get sky priority Checkin and preferred exit row seats (extra legroom) for free.
Just by having those two Platinum cards would give you the $5K MQDs to get Silver. Either of those cards give you free checked bags. Medallion status gives you an extra checked bag.
You get 1 MQD for every dollar you spend on flights and $1 MQD for every $10 you spend on the Reserve or $20 you spend on the Platinum. You get $2500 MQDs for each of those cards.
I got the other $7500 MQDs last year between flights and credit card spend.
Me and my partner/friends travel with some privileges due to my work in air transport industry, so business class seats on trans-oceanic flights for 150$ or so
Still hate the experience in comparison to modern rail.
But security theatre is apparently necessary, see "golden age of hijacking" 1968-72: over 300 events in five years, that's a hijack a week!
As soon as they build a tunnel under the Atlantic or make widely available solar-electric "steamers" that can cross it in less than a week with four-figure ticket prices, I'll be thrilled to take that option.
Ditto for a high-speed rail network throughout the continental US.
Until then, it's simply unhelpful to try to shame people for not opting out of employer-mandated travel or limiting their vacation days to a 300-mile radius (or insisting that they spend multiple of those days driving).
> [...] limiting their vacation days to a 300-mile radius (or insisting that they spend multiple of those days driving).
Why? Why does everybody think that they've got the God-given right to fly thousands of miles away to just lie at a beach for 3 days and come back? Why don't they realize that they are probably already very fortunate in life and with that fotune comes some responsibility?
Maybe it's not helpful shaming them, but the more we de-normalize this behavior, the fewer people are going to do it.
How large of a percentage of your income do you give to help the less fortunate? Did you choose a career for the money or did you decide to choose a less lucrative career in a non profit?
What sacrifices are you making to the lifestyle you want to have “to save the earth”?
And no one can answer the question of how my flying in a plane that was already going to fly reduces emissions.
I could also clutch my pearls and say people who drive into work instead of choosing a job that allows them to work remotely and refusing to be in an office would help climate change.
Of course that would be silly and self serving. I bet everyone criticizing me would love to be in a position to have unlimited PTO, work remotely and be able to travel more.
Not that we are rich - we are 50, empty nesters, downsized our home and moved to a state tax free state along with other fixed cost saving moves
And no one can answer the question of how my flying in a plane that was already going to fly reduces emissions.
you can worry about your carbon footprint or not - your choice - but this is about as silly of a statement as they come. this is like being nazi in Auschwitz and going “well someone else would commit these heinous crimes so what’s the difference if I do it.” you do your part - that is what you are in control in and what you can decide on based on your beliefs. but to say “well shit, this plane gonna take off anyways so imma just jump onboard and take a couple
of seats that are available” is not an acceptable argument
It really doesn’t matter what I did as you were the one commenting on but I’ll amswer
Did you choose a job where you didn’t have to go to work and cause carbon emissions?
yes, I am a contractor and have been working from home-office since 2007
You purposefully chose a job where you decided to drive into work. Did you buy a house close enough to work to walk or ride a bike?
yes, I also chose a private school for my kid which is nearby and we bike to school weather-permitting roughly 75% of the time
Whet sacrifices have you personally made to reduce your carbon footprint?
I drive EV. My wife and I donate 10% of all our pre-tax earning significant portion of which goes to Oceana. I installed solar panels on my house long before it was even remotely economically feasible… We try to do our part, even in cases where it is a bit of theatre more so than actual benefit (recycling for instance)
What we don’t have is an expensive car - we bought a cheap new car that is less than half the median cost of a car in the US. We don’t have expensive housing - we downsized to a 1200 foot condo after our youngest graduated. We don’t have state taxes - we moved to state tax free Florida. We also don’t have any debt besides the condo that we put 30% down on. Our mortgage is much lower than the average mortgage.
In the grand scheme of things, our travel budget is less than 10% of our gross comp and I don’t work at BigTech (been there done that). Even half of that is offset by not having to pay state taxes which we did before we moved in 2022.
There is some 'startup' trying to bring modern versions of concorde planes, not really grokking the reasons it went out of business it seems.
As if rich people are not universally hated enough, lets show off to everybody by flying marginally faster and polluting way more in super cramped very loud tubes. Some technical challenges can be maybe addressed these days but not all of them. Unless folks fly half around the world time spent on airports takes away massive chunk of overall flight time anyway.
>> Also most airlines board people roughly front to back, when it should be the opposite
the problem with back to front is that people in the back would put their bags into overhead bins in the front, which they can easily pick up on the way out. However, you cant walk backwards for pickup, so the read overhead bins would be empty and inaccessible by the people boarding last.
I was a traveling consulting when people did such things. I got to see this silliness 2-3x/wk
I don’t think they mean passengers in row 50 put their bags in row 30.
I think it’s just that your eyes’s reach trends towards the front of the plane. If it’s busy when you try to stow away your bag, chances are you will prefer putting it in a meter towards the front of the plane (where you’re standing anyways, waiting for the person before you to stow away their bag) over cramming it in above your head, where the other bags already are.
Oh, people in row 40 routinely put their bag in row 8 if they can, because it means they might not have to check their bag if the plane runs out of space.
Honestly they need to crack down on overhead usage in general, and not just for this reason. The thing about air travel that always makes me angriest is how F'ing slow everything becomes because everyone is trying to jam 93 different huge bags in the overhead bin.
Incentivize people back towards checking their bags, the process would be more efficient all around.
