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Being able to spare a couple of cores as a new partition and moving a partition to it to replace the memory and even the processor of the faulty partition with zero downtime is great.

Consider that partitions are completely isolated from each other. Not some pesky soft isolation either, it's all done in hardware. In practice, every partition in a mainframe is a different logical yet isolated mainframe.

Mainframes are built for different kinds of workloads. They are not cloud machines. They are batch machines with 6 or more nines of uptime.

In my current job, a mainframe would be useless. However, fore mission critical core services which needs predictable latencies (bank transaction engines, central big databases etc.) I'll take a mainframe all day, every day.




> Consider that partitions are completely isolated from each other. Not some pesky soft isolation either, it's all done in hardware. In practice, every partition in a mainframe is a different logical yet isolated mainframe.

"Completely isolated in hardware" as in isolated by a software hypervisor (PR/SM) that doesn't have a whole lot of hardware support?

> Mainframes are built for different kinds of workloads. They are not cloud machines. They are batch machines with 6 or more nines of uptime.

That's kind of the point. What exactly is the niche, i.e. which new customer with exactly what software and latency requirements would switch from their current system to a z? IBM won't tell you apart from buzzword bingo.


>buzzword bingo

I'm guessing that many of the terms in this thread are buzzwords for many of us reading it :), since relatively few people work on mainframes.

I had not heard of the term buzzword bingo before, so I googled it:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buzzword_bingo

Interesting. It aligns with my corporate experience in a few cases.




Wow. She nails his guff at the end, with one single word.

I'm nominating this video for the next Oscars, Grammies, or whatever the heck the movie awards are called (I don't keep track of such stuff). Bet it'll win gold in the under-1-minute category ;)


That campaign probably got a truckload of awards in Cannes. I was working at Ogilvy back then and IBM was one huge client of ours.


Oh, wow. I have read his book, Ogilvy on Advertising. Found it interesting, to say the least.


Read chapter 3 here: https://www.redbooks.ibm.com/redbooks/pdfs/sg248233.pdf#page...

They’ve spent the last 60 years developing and refining everything for extreme levels of uptime and high availability. It’s truly unique to these mainframes because IBM controls every aspect of it. The closest equivalent of that kind of vertical integration is your Macbook Pro.

I highly doubt there are any brand new mainframe customers these days. But many of the biggest companies you know and use every single day have tons of workloads that will never move off of it.


I don't think I need to be reading this. The uptime and several 9s of high availability are attainable with z/OS and a parallel sysplex. No doubt systems like these are used by banks and others in the wild.

But this doesn't say anything about "unbelievably powerful" or "feature-full" as in the OP?

The niche customer claim probably is "will never move off of it because nobody ever wants to touch millions of lines of COBOL" then that's fine. It's likely sane from a business perspective to continue using them as long as maintenance burden is manageable. Luckily managers in those more conservative companies consider full rewrites dangerous, rightly so. But in order to claim otherwise (i.e. unbelievably powerful and thus for everybody) we need to see numbers.


I’d say 15+ years ago, they were very powerful relative to other solutions on the market during those times. But I agree that’s no longer the case when compared to modern server racks.

I pointed out that Redbook about HA features since it’s a major differentiator of mainframes even today, but there are also these that document other features:

https://www.redbooks.ibm.com/redbooks/pdfs/sg248950.pdf#page...

https://www.redbooks.ibm.com/redbooks/pdfs/sg246366.pdf#page...

You can find 1 or more books that go into a deep dive of every chapter.

IBM has taken input from the biggest companies in the world over many decades to run as many of their workloads as possible. They’ve honed everything in their software and hardware to do so, down to developing specific cpu instructions to support specific use cases. If all of this doesn’t convey an extremely feature rich system, I’d like to hear why you think otherwise.


> "Completely isolated in hardware" as in isolated by a software hypervisor (PR/SM) that doesn't have a whole lot of hardware support?

Are you saying the GP's statement is outright false?


It is extremely optimistic, to put it mildly. You can definitely get inter-LPAR noise. I've seen it first hand, personally, on systems that I've worked on.

Moreover the norm for zLinux system is to isolate guests with zVM, not LPARs. LPARs are more likely to be boundaries for chunkier workload definitions - that advice may have changed since I last cracked open a redbook; zVM offers similar isolation to what you'd see with KVM, VMWare, or other hardware-assisted hypervisors.


What do you even mean by "predictable latencies"? Afaik this needs an RTOS.


An RTOS defines a stricter latency envelope than a mainframe, almost into "deterministic latency" range.

For example, you can say "this operation will take at most 3ms" in an RTOS, and it'll never exceed that number. If you're running on a fixed-frequency system, you can even say that I expect an answer in 2.8ms all the time, every time.

In a mainframe this is a bit relaxed. You can say that latency is <3ms 99% of the time, <3.1ms in 99.999% of the time and <3.5ms in 100% of the time.

IOW, you never think/say "somebody is running a heavy load on the host, and I also slowed down because of them".


How is the mainframe's 100% number different from the upper boundary that RTOSes offer? It's not 100%, is it?


What I tried to say is, a mainframe might answer late, but rarely, and very slightly. a RTOS doesn't deviate from that number in either direction. It's neither early nor late.

Some RTOS even doesn't consider late answers as acceptable.


Yeah exactly. My arm64 Linux box also might answer late, but rarely.


That's true, but that jitter envelope gets bigger as the load increases. For a mainframe this jitter envelope is much narrower, and in a competent RTOS, that's basically 0.




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