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Short term profit at the expense of everything else. At some point there will be a reckoning on all the damage this cult has done to society, but I don't expect it to happen any time soon.


I sometimes wonder if companies should/could be forced to publish a “lifetime cost” of all of their products, much like we do energy ratings for appliances. Something that would show all of the expenses over the lifetime of the products, including estimated maintenance and lifespan before replacement so people have a better idea of the true cost of the purchase.

I am confident the reporting would likely be captured by the manufacturers anyway and there would be a lot of arbitrary inputs into the reports, but something to fight the short term profit taking you describe.


Hard to imagine this working, even in a perfect world. Set aside regulatory capture and corruption and politicking and pretend that everybody does a genuine best-effort attempt to be honest.

It's extremely hard to know ahead of time which products will ultimately be reliable and which will be flaky. Most flaky components weren't designed with that in mind -- there are some exceptions, but maintenance headaches are normally a mistake by the manufacturer. And even setting that aside, a big part of "cheap to maintain" is how many units you ship: part of why it's cheap to maintain a Civic or a Corolla is because they made millions of them, parts are everywhere, and every shop knows how to deal with them. But knowing up front if your product is going to be a hit or a flop is just not generally possible, even though that has a huge impact on maintenance costs.

Even in a world of angels, I don't know that this idea would work in general. Maybe if it was specific to some industries where the costs are easier to estimate?


It’s already the case that you have to do this for certain groups of products in France under the AGEC laws. Take for example this dishwasher: https://www.ikea.com/fr/fr/p/diskad-lave-vaisselle-encastrab... . It has an “indice de répairabilité” of 7.4, generated from a bunch of different factors such as ease of disassembly, availability of spare parts and documentation, and the ability to factory-reset it. The data sheet listing those factors for this model is here: https://www.ikea.com/fr/fr/files/pdf/4f/fd/4ffd4fd2/indice-d...


I don't know what, if any, regulations are involved but here in Norway several of the big electrical retailers have started publishing the expected lifetime of products together with statement of how long spares will be available.

For example the Ankarsrum food mixer (successor to the classic Electrolux Assistent) entry at Elkjop.no states that the expected lifetime is 30 years and that spares will be available for 12 years.

https://www.elkjop.no/product/hjem-rengjoring-og-kjokkenutst...

The French idea looks good. IKEA don't provide that information here :-(


I like that a lot. Judging from the criteria (in my extremely limited French) it’s a measure of effort rather than outcome, but honestly effort is all we can really ask for.


Do you have any personal experience or opinion if this law/metric is helpful for consumers in praxis?


No: it’s fairly recent (and in fact only a part of the wider set of AGEC requirements that include labelling for recyclability, recycled status, consumption of rare earths and precious metals, origin of textiles, etc.) And then there’s the EU-wide Digital Product Passport[1] coming in the next few years that’ll up the game again. We’ll see over the coming years what customer perception is like.

[1] A report on this at https://www.corporateleadersgroup.com/files/cisl_digital_pro...


Total cost of ownership is a pretty standard estimate in the auto world, but yes, it really needs to be done by a 3rd party, and of course the tractor market is pretty niche in comparison.


Even if they only did this with the maintenance schedule costs, with breakouts for major possible maintenance incidents, in present dollars. That would be extremely useful.

Companies like consumer reports should do this sort of thing.


The damage is already done.

MBAs had no long-term vision, so in each company they infested, they made poor strategic decisions such as moving manufacturing overseas, which then forced other companies to move their manufacturing overseas.

The countries they chose have zero respect for intellectual property. So now what's left are zombie companies milking their cash cows dry as international competitors arise and take their market share.


>MBAs had no long-term vision, so in each company they infested, they made poor strategic decisions such as moving manufacturing overseas, which then forced other companies to move their manufacturing overseas.

The economic basis for that appeared way before the first MBA got a job.


The goal of any business is to make money, it's why they exist. Moving production overseas saves money. I don't see why this has anything to do with MBAs


Some people think:

“My goal is to make money”

Other people think:

“I need to make some money to achieve my goal”

There are plenty of people from the second category that run businesses, but probably more from the first though.


The question is whether you want to make money in the short term or in the long term. You can do a lot of things that will increase profits for a few years but kill the company long term.


Stock markets reward the short term. This, not MBAs, is the root issue. MBAs are just doing what the shareholders are demanding.


If I were to make a product, I would hope that I'm making money because it's a quality product people like and want to buy because it's good, and not because I'm delivering the minimum possible value not considered fraud to extract maximum value from the customer.


Making money is an indicator that you are producing something that consumers need and want but it should not be the ultimate goal.

A company should stay true to its mission and vision.


Solid argument. No chief executive with an MBA has ever contributed positively to the company they run. ::eyeroll::


well arguments like these are of course all about the statistical tendency because outliers are, by definition, not that important.

But I notice you didn't actually give an example of an outlier MBA that did not behave this way and contributed positively to the company they ran?


I assumed in 2023 we're beyond simply applying negative stereotypes to people based on perceptions of a group, but apparently you aren't


Erm no, if there is a group of hooligans, than I will still assume that they are up for violence and if there is a bunch of MBAs taking over companies, I will assume that they are there for short term profit.


Is finding the theories that motivate MBA educational programs abhorrent a form of racism in your view?

Generally one is not supposed to stereotype groups based on characteristics outside their control.

on edit: added in abhorrent.


Well cant botch it that hard, the pals from ivy that are now in government, wont bail you out. So, guess we will never know the good from the bad >> eyescroll <<


People can hate Elon all they want. The guy is extravagant and controversial, and maybe not the best role model for your kids.

But he is right in the sense that a company leader needs to occasionally leave the meeting room and get in the factory floor, get direct exposure to customers and see things firsthand.

We would be already in Mars if we had not stopped doing that.


What's the flip side? VC's? You know, the people who won't even start a company unless there's a way to try to monopolize the position, buy up all supply with seed money, and then extract ALL the possible rent from the market segment? "Long-term" thinking with precisely the same anti-competitive, anti-consumer end result.


> Short term profit at the expense of everything else. At some point there will be a reckoning on all the damage this cult has done to society, but I don't expect it to happen any time soon.

I can't see how, the same people pushing for WTO/NAFTA are those who profited immensely from outsourcing in the 80s-90s are now the same one who likely stand to benefit the most from either supply chain disruptions, and war.

The truth is that JD is just another monopoly ([0] over 50% market share of tractors) that represents the underlying aspects of crony capitalism writ large. This is just another example how the mantra that 'tech should be in everything' needs to die, and how pervasive these horrible practices can become for the small sector of humans (less than 1% of the Human population feeds the other 99%) who grow the food everyone eats.

MBAs making supply chains inherently fragile and over who valued BS things like JIT are just reflecting what is most rewarded in the corpo culture: quick profits are the way to get fat bonuses and stock options in order to bail out when even the slightest hint of head-winds occur. This is just a symptom, not the cause and a reason why US manufacturing will likely take some time before it can get off it's addiction to the garbage made in China.

0: https://www.economicliberties.us/our-work/cheat-to-win-the-j...


> MBAs making supply chains inherently fragile and over who valued BS things like JIT are just reflecting what is most rewarded in the corpo culture:

Also reflected in what is most rewarded by consumers: lower prices.

No business was ever going to thrive selling US manufactured goods at a significant price premium compared to non US manufactured goods.


I dunno I'm currently trying to boycott Chinese made goods, regardless the cost. I'm in the position to be able to do that but so are many others.

It's like they're targeting the lowest common denominator.

It's a self fulfilling prophecy right? If the manufacturing was internal to the US say, theres more jobs hence better economy hence people are able too afford those locally prepared goods.

That probably requires a united front against outsourcing though. It's almost as if globalism breeds poverty, and is just a way for megacorps to milk us of our cash. Totally removed from any kind of social responsibility.

They sure love to change their logos to a rainbow and call that social responsibility though. Like Nike shipping you a keychain of all the micro plastics produced during the manufacturing of those shoes you just bought as if making you deal with their waste is environmental responsibility.


>It's almost as if globalism breeds poverty, and is just a way for megacorps to milk us of our cash.

Or it is arbitraging labor prices across different markets and lifting up others. Or it is also arbitraging environmental regulations and taking advantage of more corrupt/inept societies. Or it is also arbitraging better efficiencies in a more appropriately regulated economy, rather than an under or over regulated economy.


> trying to boycott Chinese made goods, regardless the cost. I'm in the position to be able to do that

Really? Did you post your comment by carrier pigeon?


I think the "wherever possible" is implied. Where does this kind of cheap-shot snark end? Shall we next post the We Should Improve Society Somewhat comic?

...besides, maybe they're posting from one of those Raspberry Pi Model Bs that were fabbed in the UK.


> maybe they're posting from one of those Raspberry Pi Model Bs that were fabbed in the UK.

That is connected to a router made in China. And the keyboard and display, where were they made? My point is that it is pretty much unachievable and your "wherever possible" is just a get out of jail free card. Also it isn't a particularly laudable aim if we scale it up to the whole of society. We need the various countries in the world to be interdependent, we need China to need to sell to us.


I just bought an oven made in Turkey. I bought various 4WD mods manufactured in Australia. Keyboard was made by me using parts from USA and Germany. Another keyboard made in Taiwan.

China (aka East Taiwan) makes cheap shit. If you have money you can afford the better manufactured stuff from non tofu-dreg countries.

We need to divulge from China a much as possible and many companies are. It is not ethical to do business with a country that has concentration camps. Hopefully one day the ROC will reclaim power over China and clean all that up.


Hoss, ask yer mechanic if his wrenches are Snap On or Harbor Freight.


>a significant price premium

Obviously paying the premium for Snap-On over harbor freight is worth it, for some people. Harbor Freight still makes the most sense for a huge portion of the market, reducing the market for US made tools.

Whatever the result, it will be visible in what succeeds in the market over the long term.


Yes, and Snap On is nonetheless thriving, selling US-manufactured goods at a significant price premium compared to cheap imports.


First you have the product people. They make the product that people like and build a strong company off of a good product.

After the product people you have the marketing people come in. They don’t really know how to evolve the product, but they know how to sell it and generally they know not to mess with a good product and the company makes a lot of money and grow to the logical maximum of whatever product or services they offer.

Eventually the marketing people reach the limit and then the finance people come in. And this is when a company fully gets gutted. To the bean counters every thing is a bean. They look at the good successful product and think, “how can we make this cost less to make.” So they cut every corner they can to make numbers go up on a spreadsheet. At first this is okay, because it is just a few changes that aren’t that big of a deal, but 30 change later and customers notice and are irate and swear off the company forever.

Not satisfied they will usually cut internal costs too and all of the good employee will leave.

The company then sometimes brings back in a product person and rebounds or sells off to private equity.




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