I fixed my sleep apnea by sleeping with an oxymeter on. When breathing was obstructed, my blood oxygen dropped. The oxymeter beeped and woke me up. I changed positions, and went back to sleep, ultimately changing sleep habits to the point that I can get through most nights without awakening. I was able to avoid using a CPAP that way.

Perhaps a muscle tension sensing device, such as https://www.sparkfun.com/products/13723 could serve a similar function. Place the sensors on your jaw muscles while you sleep (may only need to be one of them) and if you clench, it beeps or buzzes and wakes you up. May take some inventiveness to integrate it with power and alert, and then to get it comfortable enough to sleep in. And you'd want to avoid any cords that could wrap around you.

It may not lead to a cure, but might give you an idea of what's going on when you clench at night.

Sounds like you've managed to address the first issue, but without a sleep study it's impossible to say for sure whether you've addressed the second problem.

Most apneas typically occur during REM sleep, when muscle tone is at its lowest and airways are more likely to collapse. If you frequently wake up during REM (even if it's a micro-arousal), your sleep architecture is broken.

It boggles the mind that sleep apnea severity is diagnosed on number of events (AHI) without considering when those events occur. Maybe you have an AHI of 3, but if they all happen during 2 hours of REM, you basically wake up 24 times during REM, which sounds a lot worse than 3 events per hour.

Sauce: have sleep apnea, hate the machine, but have learned to live with it.

Learning how to use it is a lot of "fun" (expect to spend half of the day vomiting until you learn how to insert it properly), but afterwards it works like magic.

I would recommend to try it, and verify by oxymeter how it works.

The product itself seems like it's supposed to be malleable to adjust to the individual, which kind of makes the fitting session + workshop seem like rent seeking. Just give me an instruction booklet with FAQ and warnings.

If you have a friend who is a customer, he could (this is cheating) buy one for you (pretending it is a replacement for him), and explain to you how to use it. You save a lot of money, but the disadvantage is that it is not fitted for you. I am not sure what difference it makes.

So, if that is an option, I would recommend buying one via friend, testing it (with oxymeter), and if you are satisfied, follow the official channels (through Hungary). At the moment you are sure the solution works for you, I think it is worth the money, considering how costly and/or inconvenient are the alternative solutions. (Then you can do an extra test whether having the wire fitted for you is an improvement.)

(It would probably also make sense to take photos of the wire immediately after you buy, so that you can try making duplicates later when the original piece breaks or loses shape.)

Yes, the wires are custom shaped. (But they work even if you use a version shaped for someone else with similar head size. I don't know how much difference it makes compared to shaping specifically for you.)

Long ago, I suspected it and was able to adjust by just sleeping on my side.

Then years later, I was having more trouble. I took the test and found I had mild sleep apnea and they gave me a machine to try.

I hated it and gave it back (looking back they gave me a terrible default setup and a huge facemask that most people immediately switch out)

My solution was to get a mouthguard. The way it works is it keeps your jaw aligned at night, so airway+tongue are less likely to obstruct your breathing. Just search for "boil and bite" type mouthguards on amazon, they're inexpensive and pretty easy to use.

What I found interesting during the mouthguard stage is that I probably have had bruxism all along. I have one part of the bone structure in my mouth that grew bigger possibly from clenching over the years.

In the end, that only worked well for maybe 6 months before I started noticing the trouble again, so I went for the cpap. I had to make it work and ended up working with a heated hose and the nasal pillow style nosepiece. I'm pretty good now. (one more piece of advice, keep it clean with alcohol and you'll be much better off)

I tried all sorts, from mouthguards to oximeter alarms, and nothing really helped, if anything, they generally worsened my sleep - I'm a light sleeper at the best of times.

A visit to the doctor revealed that I was pre-diabetic, and he advised that I shed some weight - I was 250lbs, and I brought myself down to 180lbs over about six months.

The sleep apnoea and bruxism both went away with the weight, and a decade on, haven't returned. I suspect that the additional weight was making my airway collapse in the night, and that would then result in me bruxing as I quietly asphyxiated in my sleep, before I'd wake up gasping in a puddle of sweat.

I had thought for the longest time that the root cause was stress, and that it was therefore untreatable without major lifestyle changes which weren't tenable at the time - but the stress went on for years after I lost the weight, without bruxing or apnoea. I suppose, at root, the stress was the cause, as I sure as hell comfort ate my way out of my misery and into size 40 jeans.

I do, once in a blue moon, still do the choke and grind routine, but it's usually only if I've gone to bed really quite drunk.

Obviously this isn't a one-size-fits-all solution, as sleep apnoea and bruxism can be brought about by any number of causes, but this was a solution for me, and might be for others who are in the same situation I was in.

I’m a grinder myself and my weight yo-yos between 200-250LB. My grinding is definitely related to weight. If my BMI is below 25%, the grinding stops. Pop back up and it starts again.

Stress plays a role in daytime clenching but it is far less when I’m in better shape.

These can work but feel pretty horrible to sleep with. If you can afford it, your dentist can make you a slim fit top guard that is far more comfortable. I wear one and it's 100% fixed my jaw tension and tooth grind damage problems.

There is also a new type of fitted double guard which holds your jaw slightly open to alleviate apnea. They're expensive but depending on your country's healthcare you may get a rebate if prescribed one after a sleep study.

If your finances/healthcare don't permit the above, I recommend trimming down the boil and bite guard with scissors, you don't need most of that plastic. It will still suck compared a proper dental guard.

I was lots more successful with humidified air. If you have a raw throat, or if you have a stuffed up nose, humidity will take care of it. Another way to help is to drink enough fluids.

Note that I turned down the default temperature and humidity.

As to the cleaning - you need to clean it anyway. Your exhalations do go down the tube backwards. When I first started using it I would get tired of cleaning and put it off and got a really bad head cold.

I’m trying some electrode gel on the one I have. If that doesn’t work, I’ll look into the sensor you linked. The process you described is exactly what these devices do: biofeedback.

* grindcare: has studies, out of production

* bruxrelief: no consumer product yet. No biofeedback

* sleep guard: trying to get it to work

Presumably yes it would need support in WatchOS 7.

Would that still be true of a more expensive device, like the Apple Watch?

Uses 2 AAA batteries. Good for 3-4 nights.

If you can spend more, I'd suggest the wrist type. The fingertip can be a little uncomfortable being clamped to your finger all night.

This one does have an alarm: https://www.amazon.com/Wellue-Fingertip-Saturation-Batteries...

I gave a muscle tension based anti bruxism device called GrindAlert a serious try perhaps a decade ago, and it didn't help me.

That's basically what your body already does natively, though.

> This may sound crazy, but for those who can't tolerate a CPAP, an effective alternative is playing the didgeridoo.

They linked a study [1] that actually tested this and found it to be helpful.

0: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23430332

1: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1360393/

0: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12119224/

Was this a problem for you? I have a feeling a sleep medication would help with this but won't that interfere with the study?

At the end of the day, you will eventually fall asleep and hit deep sleep and they'll get the measurements they need.

No one sleeps well knowing they are being watched and hooked up to all those sensors. :)

It's possible that you're experiencing collapse in both areas; and it's also possible that neither device will work, depending on the severity of your sleep apnea; namely if you're overweight. I had "mild" sleep apnea that left me VERY fatigued because it was characterized by mild hypopneas (slight secessions in breathing) at an incredible frequency which stopped me from reaching REM throughout the night. The devices helped.

To ameliorate the situation completely I found a great doctor out of USC who ended up performing 4 procedures and 3 surgeries. I had my uvula cut, my tongue burned, my palate ablated, and a few other things. It was an incredible headache during the time but well worth it and now don't need a CPAP. Also worth mentioning that I had some gut dysbiosis at the time which can masquerade as sleep apnea. Good luck to you.

[0] https://www.amazon.com/Eliminator-Sleep-Custom-Bruxism-Mouth...

For the past 10 years I've been lightly grinding my teeth. Previous partners have noticed it at night and my dentist has suggested a mouth guard in the past to help.

I hate the feel of a mouth guard so avoided the suggestion for years and also avoided trying to solve it. But in the past 3 years i accidentally discovered the root cause and have been using various methodologies that as a side effect have mostly got it to stop.

Root cause: Trauma. (this can be either mental and/or physical)

The body will attempt to protect you in different ways. Tension, clenching, stiffness, etc. These are short term strategies which can be useful. But if the trauma isn't worked out it can leave the sympathetic nervous system in a heightened state.

Toolbox: (I like this metaphor because it's never one "trick" to fix things)

* Therapy - Seems obvious in retrospect but i was very skeptical at first. I ended up seeing one who specialized in mindfulness & cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT). But you'll want to see what system works best for you

* Acupuncture

* Meditation practice

* Literally learning how to breathe (i would oddly hold my breath)

Using this toolbox has been a life-changer for various "bugs" in my life. Many i wrongly assumed were unfixable.

All of this has led me to feel calmer. Which has relaxed my body and helped with my posture. I can sleep better, and this lowered heightened state has largely removed my jaw clenching.

Find a way that works for you. But know that it's not a forever issue <3

With flutes, there are many, I have end up with shakuhachi, which I use in its original context, as a tool for meditation. When playing meditatively, it is easier to concentrate on your posture and breath, going through your body again and again, removing any unnecessary tensions. You can be more "in" the body, less in your head. Great practice!

Just playing it for 20 minutes changes your mood. Good luck!

How did you go about learning?

Main one was the breathing exercises in mediation. Which teach you how focusing on breathing can help steady yourself if tension, anxiety, nervousness, etc overtake you.

Secondarily was i was taking some Pilates classes. Seeing how breathing was important during movements helped reinforce the notion. Plus it helps you get more oxygen in and you tire less

Overall it was retraining my body to keep breathing :)

Now it's almost unconscious when I'm sensing anxiety/tensions rising. I'll start focusing on my breathing to bring me back to a calmer state

A quick google search found this lesson [1] and I'm sure there are plenty of others.

[1] https://feldenkraisproject.com/lesson/easing-jaw-neck-should...

And how did you find a good therapist? I feel like it would be a hard domain, but helpful if I found a good one.

It’s a continual practice, no one ever gets perfect at it. But building up the skills let’s you ride that bicycle :)

As for therapists it’s really a personal call. Research some ones in your area. Most will list their qualifications and their therapy modality. And then give them a call and ask for a consultation. Kinda like a first date you chat over the phone or in-person. You will get a personal sense on how they respond to your question or needs. I called 5 and picked one after those consults.

My main reason was I felt more at ease with the sound of their voice

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists

I now do something that has reduced my bruxism by a LOT:

Mouth taping.

My dad's old college roommate is a bruxism expert and wrote to me:

"Bruxism is the body's attempt to dilate pharyngeal muscles to open the airway and facilitate breathing. You probably snore and or have sleep apnea."

Mouth taping solves this because it forces my body to breath thru the nose vs the mouth and consequently I get more oxygen and much better sleep.

Add a magnesium supplement to this and I'm doing so much better.

EDIT: Forgot to mention I had bad allergies and have asthma so I learned bad breathing habits early on. AKA mouth breathing.

A simple test: Where is your tongue resting right now? If it's at the bottom of your mouth, you're probably a mouth breather. And that's not good!

I think it's helping.

I ordered some breathe right things for the nose for sleep to try to improve this, hoping it helps with bruxism. If they work and I still have it, will try tape. Want to make sure I don’t suffocate first due to blocked nose haha.

My nose gets clogged sometimes but when you force yourself to breathe through your nose, your body tries to accommodate and opens it up. It will feel weird in the first week but you'll get used to it.

I'd skip breathe right and go straight to tape! I tried breathe right but I was still mouth breathing.

I started with https://somnifix.com/products/mouth-strips-snoring-sleep-aid – they have a tiny cut in the tape that allows some airflow; but it got too costly and wasteful so I moved to 3M's Micropore.

1. Reducing caffeine intake. The science seems to be fairly conclusive that high caffeine intake is associated with bruxism.

2. Magnesium supplementation. Here the science is a bit less clear: I haven't found any study tying magnesium to bruxism, but there are studies correlating magnesium deficiency with conditions related to bruxism, such as anxiety and muscle tension. In any case I think the risks of magnesium supplementation are low.

I will say that my experience with grinding my teeth stopping was that it probably went away because of changes that were out of my control that made my life much less stressful. But those aren't much good as interventions.

I drink 3 cups of Black coffee every day. 2 after waking up and then 1 in the evening.

Black coffee has been perpetrated as a magic potion by the latest weight loss consultants. It adds to my feel good factor.

I will also add that coffee dehydrates you, which can also be associated with muscle tension and anxiety. So maybe make sure you're drinking enough water (and electrolytes!) as well.

I feel ya on the feel good factor though. It would take some serious side effects for me to want to quit coffee.

I mean, this is the exact reasoning that hooks people up on amphetamines.

https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/10/11/1772/htm

I haven't seen definitive numbers on how long coffee works, but I'm pretty sure that it's more than the half-hour that Wikipedia claims, and Walker in particular says coffee in the afternoon does affect night's sleep. Personally for me, if I drink three cups in a day, or drink a cup or two for several days straight, then I can feel the effect on the following days—specifically in muscle tension and irritability.

Has the causation been established? It's plausible (perhaps even likely) that people with bruxism consume more caffeine because of sleepiness due to lower quality of sleep.

OP I would seriously look into reducing stress. Maybe that means scaling down your business, or learning to say no, or getting better work and life habits... I don’t know you so I can’t specifically tell bit id look in that direction.

Not to make light of your situation, but this made me chuckle.

I think earlier in my programming career I suffered a lot of anxiety from imposter syndrome. Learning to let go of that gradually over time has me experiencing a lot less work related anxiety, but I can definitely relate to your experience.

And did you use pen + paper, or digital?

One set of botox injections into the masseter muscles completely solved this. About $250 (a cosmetic type procedure performed by doctor). It has never returned, it’s been about 3 years.

Finally, which sort of doctor do you go to specifically: I’m assuming they need to specialize a bit in botox for bruxism.

Interesting it lasted three years and counting, as botox doesn’t last that long. Presumably your body simply lost the habit. Also interesting about the x ray, I’ll ask my dentist or doctor.

Botox in the masseter makes your face longer and reduced the squareness of the jawline for cosmetic purposes. I don’t think it’s safe to keep on going back to do it repeatedly, as your jawbone strength and regrowth is maintainer by the compressive forces of chewing and biting.

In my case, I think it was 60/40 physical/mental. I got into a really bad feedback loop of thinking about the jaw and clenching. The botox made it hard to do that, and essentially I “forgot” the feedback loop.

The results were nearly instant; I’d think maybe 24 hours and it stopped.

The botox dose was so low it didn't have much effect on my jawline, but it did "reset" or "break" the clench-pressure-clench loop which you seem to also suffer from. I found that if I tried to clench my jaw, I couldn't impart the same force as before. The relief and improvement was almost instant. It was injected in about 5 places either side.

If you look up botox + TMJD or TMD you can find info on the medical aspects of botox in the masseter muscles.

I would definitely look at the pillow you use also, if it's too firm it will influence your jaw position when sleeping. I hope this helps you and others reading this!

Do you still use the cpap? And do you think it will be for life or will the issue resolve when your jaw is fixed?

So to answer your question, no, I got my time with the MAD. I do not expect to be able to go back to it. I view it as a temporary solution in hindsight since around the 8-10 yr mark it will permanently change your jaw. It allowed me freedom to sleep at partners houses and travel, but now that I have kids and stuff, I no longer need the flexibility of the MAD. Plus, I like being able to chew food normally :)

I have no idea if it's bullshit or not, but it's compelling. Would love to hear from anyone that has insight into this.

I'm a respiratory therapist and grinding is highly common with sleep apnea. Basically, the brain stimulates the jaw to try and move in an attempt to open the airway when it's not getting enough oxygen. Losing weight, getting tonsils out (if you still have them), fixing a deviated septum and soft tissue removal (basically, an ENT does a rotor rooter to the upper throat area) or surgery to bring the jaw forward all can help.

60% of the time, losing 30-40lbs will correct it for the majority of people grinding. CPAP helps immensely as well.

I visited an ENT once for chronic fatigue. I was told that I had a slightly deviated septum from a possible childhood injury, but surgical correction was optional. Do you think it would be worth fixing? I’m apprehensive about going under a knife.

I currently only breathe through one nostril at a time, but the one I breathe from changes randomly.

This is normal: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasal_cycle

your procedure sounds terrifying, and I’d prefer to do something minimally invasive if possible. I wonder if you can do a septoplasty via physical realignment rather than cutting anything open.

My surgeon characterized my septum as "not the worst he's ever seen but definitely not minor". If you're around Seattle, it was Chris Yang at Swedish who did it.

I have a malocclusion however. So ymmv perhaps.

Ask your dentist for a jaw relax program. It's just 5-6 simple exercises you do with your jaw, (I could upload a copy of my pdf if you'd like).

Something I'm looking into now is myofunctional training/exersices (haven't tried yet). The "science" on it doesn't seem 100% yet, and mostly promoted by one company. Thoughts?

Edit: forgot to mention that physiotherapy helped immensely as well. I had poor posture/forward tilting head, which i believe i feel into due to my malocclusion. Perhaps be wary of aches/bad alignment/discomfort in neck and shoulders and see whether physio for that could help alleviate.

https://www.mah.se/fakulteter-och-omraden/Odontologiska-faku...

I'm using the first one. Pardon the swedish but pictures/google translate should sort things out. That's from a orofacial pain dept at a swedish uni

2. muscle relaxers if your doctor thinks it can help.

3. reducing stress

4. improve sleep posture and quality of bedding

5. establish rigorous sleep habits, like when you stop eating at night, when you stop using devices, adequate darkness, temperature control

No solution is guaranteed, it will be different for everyone. For me personally the main thing was trying many night guards even after finding one I could sleep with.

The most frustrating thing for me is that clenching recurs with work stress. I’ve talked to endless doctors and counselors about it, basically nothing anyone can do to help.

Full-stop, the most helpful thing was physical therapy. The process itself was super painful, there were exercises we did involving pinching the muscle and me opening my jaw which were easily some of the most piercing moments of my life. There were also these metal scraping things we used which would leave my whole face red and inflamed for many hours. But I would walk away from a session feeling like my muscles were looser.

I think it took about 3 months to get to the point where I was no longer in continuous pain at home. About 6 months (and several thousand dollars of PT - $70 three times a week adds up) until I was comfortable dropping PT.

Two other things that helped, though difficult to know exactly how much:

1. Braces. I had braces a second time in my 20's because it was supposed to help. I think in the end they weren't necessary and PT alone would have been enough. Certainly the pain was gone long before the braces were gone. But my teeth are straight again, so I guess that's a win.

2. An awareness app that beeped at me every 15 minutes. The beep meant "check your jaw, put some space between your teeth (like 1mm) and unclench your muscles". Over time I was able to gain awareness and control over all the muscles in my face and neck and forcibly relax them. I don't think this would have been effective without the PT, my muscles were locked into place when I started PT and it was only the PT that got them loose again.

If I were to start struggling with this issue again, I'd go back to PT and I'd set up a 15 minute beeper again.

Can't stress enough how much PT helped. Through the 6 months, we ended up targeting probably every muscle group from the shoulders up. They were all tense together, and there's no way I would have found all of those muscles on my own, nor identified how much they worked together in causing all the clenching. It really was a whole-face-and-neck problem.

Do you remember the awareness app?

I wonder how perception of one's own face changes the way people seek treatment for bruxism. A lot of men would view large masseters as a good thing in their own face.

For OP, I’d definitely recommend at least trying it. I’d also suggest a taking a 1-2 month mindfulness-based stress reduction (MBSR) class. Finally, if you get a night guard, try to get it from an orthodontist rather than a dentist. They take much more accurate impressions (often 3D scans now), know more about jaw mechanics, and may have access to more guard/retainer materials (like clear plastic liners).

Why do you use the guard if you stopped, do you still do it occasionally?

What really helped me. I went from grinding a lot to almost nothing. Was, I fixed my teeth. My front teeth was a bit worn out from acid drinking and food taking. Though, they looked quite normal. My problem was that my teeth where porous. Acid always slipped into to the pores, which cause my teeths to hurt(more like itching, think like a small scratch whom). Not even brushing my teeths or washing them with listerin helped, because the acid slipped very deep into the pores. Dentists couldn't see from any xray scan what was wrong, so they refused to give me any treatment that would remove some parts of the teeth. It took me a lot of effort to convince a dentist to get me something that almost resembles a teeth crown(it was more like a filling). After getting these teeth crowns, me and my wife have not noticed any teeth grinding since.

I'm beginning to suspect whether bruxism is caused by the body's reflex to tooth ache? Note, I have amateur researched this topic a lot and I don't quite bought the argument of stress, but I was pretty convinced about the argument of the body's reaction to insufficient oxygen. But, I didn't quite bought this argument either. Because, if we worn out our teeth, it would be naturally deselected by Darwin's law a long time ago. Since, we would have a small deficiency of chewing. And it would be strange if only humans did tooth grinding and not other animals? But, what we humans have been doing a bit more recently is having an increased acid consumption, which lead to my argument if bruxism is just a reflex to tooth ache?

Note, there are treatment like (epoxy??) that can fill the pores, though it didn't helped with my ache. Once, the tooth ache was gone, so was my teeth grinding.

Well, two actually; one of the top and one on the bottom. It prevents the jaw from clenching at night.

a) having a softer pillow.

b) having a hard guard. Before that I had a gummy-like guard. According to the new dentist the was making the bruxism worse.

I have less pain. But I won't risk sleeping without it

1) Physical source

The source could be physical, so you should go to an orthodontist to get a professional perspective. I've heard of people doing a minor surgery to solve the problem.

2) Emotional source

The source could also be emotional, as you mentioned. Then, you should seek professional help (from a therapist) to learn how to deal with the stress you are feeling. This could mean simply rewiring how you deal with stress, exercising more often or take medicine.

Sometimes, you simply need to pay attention to how physically tense you are due to work and try to relax your whole body.

I suffer from the bruxism as well and I got significantly better by going to therapy.

My stress seems to manifest mainly by muscle tension. I don’t really have what you would describe as anxious thoughts.

I’ve managed to reduce stress by focussing on my breathe, and relaxing certain muscles if I notice them tensing. This seems to happen when I’m deep in thought.

But I don’t really worry about things, have racing thoughts, or anything like that. Can therapy help this kind of situation?

Dr David Burns (Cognitive Behavioural Therapist) talks about this in some of his Feeling Good podcast episodes, patients who say they don't have anxious thoughts. His position is that they do[1], but they aren't aware of them.

One of his ways to identify them, is to get the patient to identify a specific time or event when they were anxious and tense (e.g. walking into a meeting, etc.), and draw a cartoon character in the same situation with a thought bubble, and then has the patient come up with any reasons why somebody - anybody - in that same situation might possibly be feeling anxious about anything. They do.

"... and are you feeling any of those things?" "yes, that's exactly how I'm feeling".

He's described it at least twice in different episodes, as a very simple but effective way to dig out the thoughts people have, that they aren't aware of having.

[1] His approach to therapy is based on the idea that life events lead to thoughts which create moods; people who have unhelpful thoughts get stuck in unbalanced moods; methods to identify and change the thoughts is what changes moods and "cures" people.

It could help you answer:

- What I feel when I'm deep in thought?

- Why I manifest muscle tension in those periods?

I would give it a try for 3-4 months.

I was waking up with headaches after moving into a new apartment. When I first got and plugged in a monitor the alarm went off because the ambient air was >3000ppm. Now that I’ve correct the issue with airflow, I sleep better and don’t wake up with headaches.

This one is good. The company that makes it co2meter.com is awesome and was helpful as I was learning more.

I went down a bit of a rabbit hole in general air quality after that. I ended up with the uHoo monitor. It’s a pricey but great.

Probably a bit of a stretch to pursue dental aligners to fix your bruxism, but hey!

That in combination was already a game changer.

Also I started the habit to do light sports at least once a week, although that was mostly because of back pain. The bruxism practically vanished after I went to the psychologist to treat my anxiety. It was a treatment without pills, just talking and learning new methods. In my case it was a Systemic Therapy (I think combined with CBT - though I'm not sure) but YMMV and I think you need to choose someone you're comfortable with. For me the priority was to pick someone that I'm comfortable with, that seems to be specialized in what I think might be the overall issue and that seems to adhere to modern methods. Whenever I feel tense when going to sleep, I do Progressive Muscle Relaxation (PMR) which was a recommendation from the Psychologist. There are audios on the internet which guide you through this, takes 10-15 minutes but now I just do it myself in 2 minutes. It's kind of a non-issue for me now, I cannot remember the last time I woke up with my teeth hurting because of that, the last series must have been years ago.

My dentist noticed some wear on my molars right around the time I started experiencing a bunch of minor issues: xerostomia (dry mouth), excessive salivation (strange to have at the same time as xerostomia), jaw fatigue, teeth clenching during the day, and an abnormal awareness of the position of my tongue in my mouth. These were among the many low-priority bugs I'd filed against my body as I was recovering from chemotherapy.

I started chewing gum to help control the xerostomia, and it became a habit. Over time, I believe I actually strengthened my jaw muscles enough to make the bruxism worse, leading to a vicious cycle of needing gum chewing to alleviate the discomfort from constant jaw clenching. This went on for many years.

About a year ago, after changing nearly everything about my daily routine to narrow down the cause, I stopped chewing gum, cold turkey. I replaced it with Tic-Tacs, resolving never to chew them. After a couple months I gave them up, too. While the bruxism and jaw clenching occasionally come back during times of work stress, it no longer seems to be a chronic condition, and my mind has restored enough muscle memory of what a normal mouth feels like that when I notice it's coming back, I can will myself back into a comfortable state again.

Hard to say whether the gum really was to blame. but for me, when I stopped was when I regained control.

It may be that you're well-informed already and it really is impractical, in which case I hope I didn't offend you. It's just that my impression is right now a lot of people are putting off treatment unnecessarily due to covid concerns.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23435964

The sleep test is definitely worth doing. However keep in mind that if they say you don't have it, then it doesn't mean you won't.

To find out why, see the "Jaws" book I mentioned in that thread.

Anecdote: I told my neighbor she had sleep apnea. She got a sleep test from Kaiser, and Kaiser told her she didn't have it. Two years later, her dentist recommended the mouth guard for bruxism.

Neither the dentist or Kaiser seem to understand that sleep apnea and bruxism are related. But it's obvious to me that she went untreated for 2 years and the symptom became worse.

The first thing I did was start sleeping predominantly on my sides and stomach, which turns out is how people sleep in nature[1]. This made my apnea all but disappear.

Then after I noticed my sinuses react to dietary changes I went on a carnivore diet -- basically only meat -- for an extended period of time and my sinuses fully cleared up. Right now I deviate from the diet a bit but I remain cautious and it's working out well.

When my breathing improved my clenching subsided.

[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1119282/

Turns out animal-based food has all the nutrients you need if you include offal like liver (a serving of liver has more vitamin C than an apple). I ate mostly Ribeyes and liver. Sometimes I had yogurt but if you're eliminating to find allergens I would cut dairy at first.

I recommend this book https://www.amazon.com/dp/1734640707/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_jp...

I don't know if you can supplement, I've never used them.

have you considered that you feel better because you’re avoiding an allergen, not because of the all-meat diet?

I haven’t used the mouthguard now in probably 5 or more years.

Learning to sleep on my back was really important too - I used to roll over onto my stomach a bunch - get a sleep study done if you can

EDIT: added a missing "body _is doing_"

You could also try just putting your tongue on the roof of your mouth when your mouth is closed (which is what you should be doing anyways). Your tongue is actually what is supposed to help get your jaw to stay up with a suction hold against the roof of your mouth, and if you don't have your tongue in that position then you will have to use only your jaw muscles which can cause to much pressure.

Also don't take medical advice from strangers on the Internet (or request it, because you just end up helping to generate more insidious noise that will show up in search results for decades).

Some of the principles involved in changing your posture (often involving which muscles are kept relaxed and which stretched) might very well apply to helping you relax your jaw muscles.

It stops me from clenching because it makes it uncomfortable.

Fix was of course, a change of eating habits. Specifically, to work around FODMAP intolerance.

If you have an hour, join their fb group and watch their video. It will be quite illuminating.

I will check them out.

I'm now almost 18 months into treatment with an LVI dentist in San Jose. I don't personally have bruxism, but it's very much in the family of issues.

My HN/lay explanation: the jaw seeks an equilibrium position that maximizes occlusion and minimizes muscular tension. However, many people live in a local equilibrium where occlusion is maximized but the jaw positioning comes with increased muscular tension. This tension can lead to symptoms like bruxism, migraines, etc.

They have a machine called the BioPAK which can track the 3D path of your bite and measure the tension in the different facial muscles to determine if you are actually in the globally optimal position.

I've asked every type of dentist about it and had one x-ray it. They all say unless it's painful it's probably nothing and I'll be fine. Which technically i am but it's really annoying.

The only satisfying theory i got was the bone in the joint got chipped when it got injured. During the healing process it didn't grow back smoothly. So opening it to it's widest causes it pop like that.

It may not work for you, but it's cheap to try.

Note: If you get this brand, notice that the dosage is 2 pills/night.

[0] https://amazon.com/gp/product/B000BD0RT0/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_sea...

I’ve had several night guards from dentists but chewed through them pretty quickly and it gets expensive.

Expect to spend over an hour getting it fitted just right, minimizing stress concentration points.

Hey! First I want to thank you for posing the question and I would love to share my experiences with this. Early on during quarantine, I began having a hard time getting through the night. Oftentimes I’d wake up with severe headaches and pain in my jaw, which a late-night google binge taught me are both prominent symptoms of Bruxism.

I found this new sleep & wellness company called Remi (www.shopremi.com) that makes custom night-guards for individuals who struggle with Bruxism. I ordered my night-guard and the entire process was super easy all taking places at home. Remi sent me an “impressions kit”, a do-it-yourself version to make a mold of my teeth. From it, they created my night guard and sent it back to me.

I've been using my night-guard for about a month or so now and I couldn't be happier with the results. I can finally sleep well at night and wake up feeling refreshed.

Well worth trying to cut it out completely for a few weeks.

First of two is lower cost, however if you can afford it you may as well go for the higher cost option which will have much higher potent healing potential.

Re: PRP & stem cell treatments

I'd recommend PRP (platelet rich plasma) injections as low cost option for your jaw including the clenching muscles. PRP is healing property concentrate from your blood and is highly anti-inflammatory. That alone could help break the cycle of clenching, and perhaps heal some damage and reduce strains in the muscles.

The more expensive version is using your own stem cells that can potentially heal/regenerate the tissues fully. You'd be prescribed opiates for a number of days and need liquid, soft diet for a few days too. Stem cell treatment would literally be the best experiment you could try. That you mentioned jaw injury makes me feel like it's likely the best route, but if you can't afford the ~$7000 - $9000+ USD + travel and stay costs for stem cell treatment, PRP is usually closer to $1000 but from my own experience only heals maybe the top 20% of pain at a source and not the deeper pains - perhaps a good litmus test where if you feel improvement but not enough then you'd know that stem cells would heal further.

There would be enough stem cells to treat more than your jaw as well, and would be best to also have your neck looked at and treated. Different doctors/clinics have different requirements before treatment such as seeing an MRI of the areas to be treated or where they may only use ultrasound to check and guide them.

I've had my jaw treated multiple times - had a lot of pain from a dislocated jaw, and also a bicycle collision. My jaw pain is arguably 90%+ lower than it used to be. I've had a lot in my body treated, I have a complex pain situation - old injuries that are amplified by central sensitization I developed - so healing even small injuries helps reduce the pain a lot.

There are two places I've gone for treatment multiple times: a doctor in San Francisco, California, who uses adipose/fat derived stem cells (think mini liposuction), and a clinic near Denver, Colorado, that use bone marrow aspirate (drill into hip bone on both sides of Iliac crest to then suck out the marrow); then there's processing they do with it, along with drawing blood to mix the stem cells with PRP to support the healing. You may find a doctor or clinic closer to you, otherwise I'd trust recommending you to them if you'd like their details; I have no incentive for referring them to you, you could tell them I did or not, or hopefully find another place that seems reputable enough to you - I'm just wanting to help people.

Re: Jaw strengthening exercise

As I said the purpose of this jaw exercise is to help strengthen the muscles at an open position, which also helps relax the muscles through the resistance part of the exercise that acts to stretch them.

It's quite simple: 1) Open your mouth enough so your teeth aren't touching (your lips never need to separate) - you'll find what range of open is comfortable as you do the strengthening-stretching. 2) Place the fingers of both hands on your chin - thumbs underneath, other fingers in front with pinkies next to each other just touching above the last joint, with your elbows relaxed down. 3) Start by applying slight pressure diagonally towards the jaw joints which will engage your hands slightly preparing to the hold to begin. 4) It doesn't matter which order you start in: as you gently pull your jaw downward with your fingers, resist by engaging your jaw to keep your jaw from ...

This can stretch out really tight muscles and may cause things like a headache. It will also help stretch fascia as well that if tightened over time will contribute to problems.

Re: Mouth strengthening via oil pulling

Oil pulling will strengthen your tongue and the holistic musculature of your mouth, as well has help stretch it. You can use any type of consumable oil (though you don't want to swallow it) like coconut oil, however sunflower oil is more often recommended in certain holistic health circles as sunflowers can absorb radiation - whether that translates to oil pulling radiation from the body, I'm unaware if there's any research showing that. The mechanism for using oil over say water is that it's viscous - and the goal is to keep moving the oil around as fast as you can for tbe duration: pushing and pulling, swishing through teeth forward and back, and sides of the mouth through the teeth, using suction or pressure with the action of the tongue. Try to do it for 2 minutes when you begin, do it daily to quickly strengthen. Your tongue and other mouth muscles will get tired but you'll feel a difference and how it gets easier each day you do it. Use a tablespoon of oil, though if not enough resistance than add more oil - if too much resistance/difficulty, use less; mouth size varies. Oil pulling is good for your teeth and gums too. Spit the oil out into the toilet, it's often suggested then to rinse your mouth, swishing around like you were, with highly diluted hydrogen peroxide for 5 seconds or so - and can spit that out in sink.

tl;dr yes; using a pacifier

Here's my experience with sleep and other issues that I've been dealing with since the beginning of this year. Some background: I was a moderately active male in my 20s with a perfect BMI. I started a company in January working from home. Prior conditions: Chronic pain in the sternocleidomastoid area when I turn my neck. Chronic RSI that made using computer keyboard painful. Chronic pain behind right eye noticeable when I move it around too much e.g. playing foosball. Chronic ITBS. Chronic constipation and ensuing haemorrhoidal problems. I'd generally consider myself a healthy individual. I believe the average healthy human has dozens of such minor annoyances.

I begun experiencing bruxism (as evidenced by damaged gums from one slightly misaligned tooth in the morning), frequent intense dreams where I'm not breathing, lightheadedness/dizziness and memory problems (including amnesia), worsened chronic neck pain, new chronic right-sided post-nasal drip, inability to concentrate, and breathlessness/high heart rate after just minor exercise or even just standing up for a long time. These issues were triggered/made worse after visiting a proctologist who, in an act of malpractice, medicated me with a drug that made me delirious (it wasn't supposed to) and gave me a severe headache that lasted 2 days. After the headache subsided I was left unable to concentrate on work. I tried, and I didn't even realize there's something wrong for the first couple of days, but my mind was just wandering all over the place and when I looked at my timesheets at the end of the week there were just a couple hours of work done. I gave myself a 3-week vacation, but I didn't see much improvement. I ended up doing no work for three months.

I've been to a dentist, GP, ophthalmology, and ENT and neither had any findings except for a deviated septum. I haven't been to neurology which had been next on my list.

First off, I fixed the haemorrhoids by eating oatmeal with added fibre and psyllium (the doctor didn't even tell me to fix my diet; ironically I read it in a publication that requires the user to declare they're a certified medical professional). Note that my case was just prolapsing without bleeding.

I started going to the gym every other day (20 minutes of light cardio + 25 minutes of strength exercise). This had noticeable impact on the breathlessness/high heart rate. I should note that when exercised too hard it made the issue worse for the rest of the day.

As for the bruxism, my dentist suggested I get braces, but I can't afford that anytime soon so I just got a dummy. I got one that lets some air flow by but not too much so my mouth doesn't get dry. I should stress that the dummy is impossible to swallow. It sounds awkward, but I can measure how bad my bruxism is by how injured my gums are and it's worked flawlessly - they recovered in a couple of days. When a month ago I tried to sleep without it once they got injured again.

I didn't mention that the headache following the medication was much worse in a horizontal position and that it didn't subside fully. When I found myself sleeping on the side or on my stomach I would wake up with a headache. Also whenever I slept on the side, I would get dizzy and have very poor sleep. I adjusted my bed so that my head would be above the body level at all times (my thanks for this advice goes to the NHS website), which helped with the headache. As for the dizziness I fixed that by sleeping on my back with sunglasses on because that doesn't allow me to sleep on the side/stomach, and it also made the bad dreams go away. I wish I got the sunglasses idea earlier.

I moved back in with my parents which relieved my anxiety about spending too much (>half o my expenses were rent). I now drive to do my work away from home, which helps with keeping a regular schedule.

I'd like to stress that I don't know what underlying conditions led to such severe decline. Stress probably played a role as well as everything being shut down due to COVID-19. But in the end I just know the symptoms and what triggered it. Today I'm almost fully recovered. Not at the top of my game as I was before, but I can focus on my work and I've done a lot of progress with my company this month. Also the RSI that made using the keyboard painful is gone.

p.s. I suspected I may have been suffering from sleep apnoea but I had no way to verify. I decided to create an app that tracks breathing using a phone's g sensor and gyroscope. This was when I was starting to recover and I could start doing lightweight programming work. I implemented a Non-uniform DFT-based algorithm that suffices with just one axis from the g sensor to reliably detect breathing while I'm awake with the phone on my stomach. Unfortunately the parameters that work while awake don't work while asleep - the app would wake me up the second I started sleeping, just like holding something in your hand that drops to the floor wakes you at the very moment you fall asleep. I was going to implement data collection and improve the app after collecting enough data, but since I got better I returned to work and I'm not really interested in continuing with this app. If anyone's interested the algorithm's here: https://pastebin.com/aVvh8YDK (sorry about the quality it's very much WIP & my first Dart project at the same time; but I believe it's all the math you need unless you want to go full ML). Here's a demo of the app albeit with just uniform DFT which wasn't great at fitting the data: https://gofile.io/d/cTf1y9

Following the advice of randos has a good chance of damaging your health worse than it is already.