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The first job I had made all devs do at least 2 1/2 days of support every week. We all hated it, but I can see now how it kept us in contact with the customers. Of the issues / bugs they faced.

Now, I run my own (small) company and make sure I (and everyone else) does at least 2 1/2 days of support.

Support contact is not hidden away, we don't try and put up hurdle after hurdle to contact someone. You can contact us on any medium and is easy(ish) to be escalated to someone who can solve the problem, explain the issue.

Time and time again, customers state our support reputation was the reason why they purchased with us instead of other companies (even though a majority of them never actually get in contact with us)




2 1/2 days sounds like it is on the high side of what is useful and will be super expensive if you pay your devs what they are worth (which makes me suspect that you don't!).

Developers should definitely stay in touch with the end users and I'm a big fan of the principle, when camarades.com was still a thing we did something like this but on a much smaller fraction of the time.

Which helped in another aspect as well: if you get hired as a developer but you end up doing support half the time you will likely be looking to leave for a company where your job title matches the work that you do.


I suspect the GP meant two shifts of four hours, not 2.5 days. The latter seems excessive indeed.


Ah good one, I never saw that possibility, yes, that is likely the accurate reading. It looks like I wasn't the only one reading it like that either. Would be good for the GGP to confirm which one is the correct reading.


Last time I was in charge, I had all team members to serve in all roles (marketing, sales, QA/test, docs & L18N, build meister, tech supp, dev, etc), even if it was just job shadowing. I even sent devs to conventions and customer site visits.

Initially, lots of complaints and pushback.

Afterwards, a lot more collaboration, emphasis on global vs local optimization, and dare I say increased empathy.

Highest functioning team I've ever worked on. I still miss it.


How can you afford paying your customer support representatives developer-sized wages? Do you have any problems finding people who are good at development and also good at customer support? Do a lot of candidates cross-train those two disciplines, with different critical skills?

I'd observe dedicated customer support reps interacting with customers. In a digest. At 1.25x normal speed or faster. A written transcript would be even better. I can't imagine actually being the support person, with synchronous communications. It would be very stressful for me.

I really hope you disclose up-front in your job advertisements that the developer jobs are actually hybrid jobs that are 50% customer support representative.


Two half days, not 2.5 days. So 20% support. One day a week.

I've seen it used effectively. I've had customers write in about a bug that I was able to solve almost immediately. No bug submission, no triage, and an apology from someone who wrote the code with the bug. This a) got us a super happy, referenceable customer, b) fixed a longstanding but infrequent bug with almost no overhead, and most importantly c) reminded me as an engineer that real people use the stuff I build.

I've seen other engineers fix long standing issues with password resets. I've seen designers tweak the language in welcome emails. I've seen a CEO fix a pricing issue on the fly during a live chat with a customer.

Being the support person also gives you empathy for the support people that support the things that you build, and to fix death by a thousand paper cut issues. That's how you afford support days: it makes your customers happier, increases customer retention, and fixes dumb inefficiencies of your support team.


I'll reserve judgment until senorjazz clarifies.

"2 1/2" is 2.5, even by a generous reading. If it is not 2.5, that is an easily avoidable mistake in technical writing. A few more minutes proofreading the user manual could have saved you many half-days in support, señor.

It wouldn't be all on one day a week, because that would be "one day a week" rather than "two half-days a week". Again, presuming good technical writing. So a four-hour stint on support, twice per week. That's only 40% as bad as five half-day shifts per week.

I presume four hours. Obviously, "1/2 day" could also plausibly be 6 hours or 12 hours, or half of a work day of unspecified length, or a time equivalent to half of a work day, occurring at a time other than during ordinary business hours. He has previously mentioned he is available at any time, for paid customers, so somebody is checking the messages on weekends.

With respect to your anecdote, if you didn't write it down, it didn't happen. You still need to write up (and immediately close) the defect report, and attach the customer interaction reports. You don't work for the customer; you work for your company, who works for the customer. And the company needs to know what you did, and why it was necessary, because when you are gone, so is the portion of institutional knowledge that lived only in your head. Your story tells me that this everyone-on-support practice enables workers to cut corners in the development process. It's only more efficient until reaching a certain scale, at which point it becomes a liability.

Your story might also give a corporate attorney some stress. As a company employee, you should never apologize on behalf of the company in a way that even suggests the company might have been at fault for anything. That type of says-nothing, customer-placating apology is an acquired skill.

Would the apparent advantages remain if each person were required to go on a "ride-along" with a dedicated customer support person? Silently listen in on their interactions? Like pair programming, except the support person always does all the driving? That might also be useful with sales staff, to improve requirements definitions. Or with management, to smooth out inefficiencies in process and status monitoring. Why not just make the whole company developers, doing other people's jobs? Because even though developers might be objectively better at customer support than a customer support representative, the work done on customer support does not generate enough additional revenue to pay them a developer's wage while they are doing it. Economic specialization separates the jobs, and pays at different rates. People do what they are best at individually, and exchange the results via trade and communication. Cross-trained generalists only work at small scales.

That's why small, niche companies can run circles around established behemoths within their niche. But they can't scale bigger until they squeeze the reliance on robust individuals that apparently makes them so agile out of their system, and replace that with robust processes.


> "2 1/2" is 2.5, even by a generous reading

While every style guide I've ever read would say never to do this for exactly this ambiguity, they also would demand that two-and-one-half, expressed as a mixed fraction, would be presented as “2½” if a fraction character is available or “2-1/2” in media where that isn't an option. With “2 1/2” as two space-separated elements, “two one-half days” is a more natural reading, IMO, than “two-and-a-half days”.


I would further argue that the conceptual use of half-days is inappropriately imprecise, because that is itself ambiguous.

  12h       = 50% 24-hour calendar day
   6h       = 50% global mean 12 hours of daylight
   0h - 12h = 50% actual local hours of daylight
   4h       = 50% standard 8-hour workday
   5h       = 50% 8 AM to 6 PM business hours
   ???      = opening until midday break
   ???      = midday break until closing
Resolving ambiguity is a great job for a hyphen:

  2-1/2 days = two-and-a-half days
  2 1/2-days = two half-days
The rule to always hyphenate mixed fractions makes that explicit, although the hyphen is visually indistinguishable from a subtraction sign. Is it two minus a half? Which is why my personal rule is to never use mixed fractions, ever, for any reason, and to never write anything that looks like a mixed fraction. No style guide I have seen suggests 2+1/2, probably because some people might confuse (2+1)/2 with 2+(1/2). Just write 5/2 or 2.5 . (And if your number is at the end of a sentence, put a space between it and the period, so it won't be confused with a decimal point.)


That's commendable - if you can find people that are willing to do customer support for half their work time - but at the same time, and this is why Google and co don't do it, it doesn't scale. If Google were to have a customer support group for non-business users, they'd have to hire 100K people to do that.

I mean I'm sure they could manage it and it'd be good for employment, but they're not going to.


Not having a support staff is the exact reason why nearly all of Google's API SDKs and the documentation supporting them are always either broken or out of date.

Except in Ads. Those (almost) always work. The customers who spend here have dedicated technical contacts. Go figure.


> Except in Ads. Those (almost) always work. The customers who spend here have dedicated technical contacts. Go figure.

Even then, it's not always ideal.

A few years ago I did AdWords for a company that dumped five figures every two weeks into Google Ads. Sure, we had our own person at Google assigned to us. But the person was reassigned to another department in Google every two months, and we ended up with someone new and wasting two or three days bringing them up to speed on our specific needs.


That was the daily ad budget at my last company. We changed reps once in like 3 years because she went on maternity leave.


> at least 2 1/2 days of support every week

So during a five day week that's up to 50% of the time?


They meant 2 half-days at a guess i.e. 20% of the employees time.


Do you mean devs spending at least half their time on the phone? Or just on call?




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