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Zulip too has similar restrictions even on their self hosted plans. SAML/LDAP is behind paywall too.


Just looked to their self hosted plans:

    - No limitation on search, members, etc.
    - 10 user limit for mobile notifications, can be relaxed via community (for non-profits, FOSS projects, etc.)
    - SAML/LDAP *support* is available, you can configure it. They won't provide answers to your questions.
    - Actually, all Zulip features are enabled sans Mobile Notifications, but for most of them, you're on your own. If you know what you're doing, it's not a problem, I assume.
IOW, for self-hosted plans, you pay for support, not the software. a-la early RedHat model.

Ref: https://zulip.com/plans/#self-hosted-sponsorships


This is false, SAML and LDAP are available. Zulip self hosted has all features with no restrictions, except for mobile notifications which require a subscription for $3.50/u/m (unless you are less than 10 users or are not a non-profit of any kind)


It’s a bit odd though that Zulip charge $ for mobile notifications but still don’t have basic end-to-end encryption for those push notifications .


It's a mix of "because they can" and "because they need to maintain infrastructure for mobile push".


The feature is deployed in the server, mobile clients are still pending the release iinm. But it's coming.


> unless you are less than 10 users or are not a non-profit of any kind

They only give free accounts to non-profits with zero paid staff.


I stand corrected. SAML & LDAP is free in zulip.


What restrictions have you hit ?


Seeing their pricing page, mobile notifications for upto 10 users is too less.


But you mentioned similar...this is a discussion about message limits (and saml ?). Those are free for self hosted.

Push uses _their_ services. That's why it costs $$$. But you can build your own apns endpoint and plug into that at that volume


Push costs pennies. It's an arbitrary restriction.


If you want to run your own push for pennies all you have to do is compile the client yourself.


I'm not going to recompile and redistribute a binary outside the Play Store.


Then your piggybacking on their infrastructure. I don't think they are unreasonable. "It can be done for pennies, but I won't" sort of implies that it does indeed take more than pennies worth of effort.


Then you pay for it. Nothing stops you


That's precisely my point. It's an arbitrary rent-seeking restriction.


Publishing an app in popular app stores, for an organization, requires several $100 in annual fees. That’s before any mobile app is even published.


At this point I think he's just trolling. Nobody can be this entitled


It's a yearly fee that amounts to a couple hundred dollars. That's about an hour of an engineer's salary. Zulip's customers make this less than a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a rounding error.


They are very good tools but I now prefer duckdb for CSV processing.


Those training datasets can never be free as almost all of them is copyrighted.


Japan has said AI can train on copyrighted materials.

https://www.privacyworld.blog/2024/03/japans-new-draft-guide...

I imagine if copyright is a big issue for AI, Japanese startups will have an advantage.


Does China need to say anything or can you guess their policy?


perhaps copyright needs to be updated. And in any case, my personal belief is that training on data that is publicly released, and as well as purchased media, is fair use.


If anything it needs to be updated to actually prevent the rampant profit extraction from human creation in order to protect actual creators.


Not OP, but that should be part of the update, I think.

I think we can all agree there does need to be an update. You don't want to forever outlaw deep learning (even if you do want to, that's not going to happen so it's worth helping to shape the future)

It's very complicated with a bunch of moving parts but I really want society to start arguing about it so we can get to a semi-fair place


I don't see how any of these authors loses money when you use chatgpt, even in theory.

You weren't going to buy a book instead of asking a question.


The people who propose that authors lose money by chatGPT's usage of their works in the training, is the same idea that piracy costs music labels money.


And we know that piracy costing money is a bogus idea from research.

LLMs costing money makes even less sense as you can't get back the source material


Each time someone clicks "send" on chatGPT, Warner Bros gets 1c

$25 to Elsevier per GPU purchase


I don't think you will ever see any law to benefit the creators. Better to eliminate it and at least let the artists the freedom to work with any media they want. Artists will generally still be poor, but they'll be more creative.


Creativity and productivity are two completely different things.


I'll be honest, even if this comment won't fly: It is impossible to change the views here, on this point. Specifically, here.

I do share your opinion. Others may argue "What about x country? They don't care!", even though that position is about as good as making anything excusable because someone else did it.

I might add, I'm really not trying to be toxic. Just saying this based on what I see when this comes up.


Yeah, that's a good idea. Stop the most important advance in storing, retrieving, and disseminating knowledge since the printing press because muh copyright!!1!!

Never mind that you've just handed control of an incredibly-powerful tool over to nations that DGAF about copyright law.

If copyright interests want to fight AI, then copyright has to go. It's that simple. It's an unnecessary fight, but somebody needs to convince them of that.


The UK government is doing that at the behest of the AI companies which tends to indicate they have bet misbehaving up to now.


Why should it be? I’d personally be pissed if my book, which came from my own hard work and is sold per person, all of the sudden get subsumed by a general AI. Even worse if it is commercialized and I get nothing for it.


what if a classroom of students learnt from your book, and ended up with a high paying job, innovation, or production, none of which makes any profit for you as an author of said book (except for the copy sold to the student)?


That’s perfectly in line with the common role and understanding of books.


Share the non-copyrighted ones and it's still a win if you make it possible to people to contribute, both through PRs, testing and discussion.


almost all free things are copyrighted


You can install whatsapp on degoogled phones as well! No need of play services.


This.

I think there’s also an unofficial Python library, so you can write a simple script that keeps your account active (and use the web client).


> degoogled phones

It's still Android. How do I do it on a GNU/Linux phone?


Waydroid.


What? There are literally hundreds of other uses of our space program which if we hadn't developed independently, we would be paying exorbitant prices to other nations for the same. Launching rockets costs us literally 10x lower cost than other nations. This thing doesn't benefit Indians only but other nations as well.


I faced a similar quantum bug in my teen years. I was very much into Android custom roms and flashing phones. I got my hands on Galaxy Y, a cheap Android phone running gingerbread. So, while flashing the phone, the the flash process always failed after around 20-30%. I suspected loose cable connection and tried again. The subsequent flashes failed even early around 5%. So I waited for a while and tried again. The same loop started - first flash fails around 20% and subsequent flash fails around 5%.

During this, I noticed the phone gets heated up above average of what I had experience with. I suspected motherboard might be faulty. Then, a random idea struck me and I put the phone in freezer wrapped in a cloth. After an hour or so, I again started the flash process. The phone was still wrapped in cloth aside the table to keep it cool during the process. And lo and behold, the process completed without a hitch.

In later years I realised it was surely due to the cheap and substandard flash memory that Samsung supplies to other countries compared to the western counterparts.


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