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It's very easy to spot, as the driver 'bricks' the chip by resetting it's PID.



well, the PID is not a physical thing. So for the average user, "the board just died on my one day". Getting wide-spread testing and evidence submitting would be challenging I think.


I don't see why that would be more challenging than any other class-action suit. Indeed, this looks easier, in that you have widespread media coverage and plenty of experts speaking out publicly. It's not a question of trying to find experts qualified to testify; here, you can pick from a bunch. The technology here is also much more straightforward than, say, an automobile, and there are successful class-action suits involving those all the time.


there isn't really any media coverage, other than the forum posts and HN. Also, using your automobile example, an average-joe consumer can take their car into a mechanic and have it tested for a recall/defect. The average-joe with an arduino is far more likely to toss the defective unit out, rather than try to spend a while troubleshooting a $40 board.

I just don't see a class-action really able to take off. Especially since we're talking about otherwise illegal counterfeit chips in the first place.


Ok. This looks like media coverage to me: http://www.zdnet.com/ftdi-admits-to-bricking-innocent-users-...

The line of argument "I, as some random anonymous person on the internet, can't see X" doesn't do much for me. Lots of people can't see lots of things, but most of the time that turns out to be about failures of knowledge or imagination, not evidence that that what they're talking about is impossible.

Further, I don't think it's really my job to make people see things. (Well, actually, it is, but I charge by the day for that.) If you don't see it, I can live with that.


Not entirely sure what your argument was here, you sort of drifted into the weeds a bit.

I think you meant to argue:

"There is one source of media coverage, although it's largely just twitter comments. And just because something is difficult to prove doesn't mean it's not provable."

Both are valid arguments.

I don't count ZDnet as a very credible source of news, and in this case, some googling seems to show they are practically the only "news site" running this story. Although, as pointed out, it's mostly just a paragraph followed by several twitter posts.

Secondly, the evidence thing is important if a case like this were to proceed. In order to sign onto the class action, you would have to prove you purchased an effected chip/board, and that this driver is what killed your product.

Two problems here:

1) You bought a counterfeit chip/board. It's unlikely any award will be levied for illegal/infringing products.

2) Users would have to show evidence they were effected. Even in the RedBull class action case that is settling now, you must prove you bought a RedBull during the time period the case covers (receipt or whatever). Again, you have a counterfeit product, which was illegal to sell/buy in the first place. Not to mention, getting average-joe to test his device, even if someone made a testing utility and freely distributed it, will be close to impossible. People who are technical and care may do it, but average-joe will assume his arduino went belly-up one day, and likely toss it in the garbage.

Let's be realistic. A handful of people in-the-know will care passionately, and do everything they can to further a claim. Several handfuls of people will care enough to do something if they believe they will get something in return (a payout). The rest will have no clue this is even a thing, and will simply throw away their "defective" device.

What FTI did was wrong. But there is no real recourse here.


Check other posts on this HN story; others have proven the drivers were deliberately malicious by analyzing either a USB stream or a driver disassembly (I haven't read enough to know which).


It was USB stream.

The problem isn't knowing the driver itself can cause a bricked chip and therefore bricked device.

The problem is Joe-Average isn't going to be able to prove it was this driver and not just a defective device/chip for another reason. Even with a free "testing" tool someone can make to check for the flipped PID bit, Joe-Average has no clue this is even going on, and is likely to just throw away his bricked device.




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