> I have yet to see a use of an FTDI type chip where there's no other microcontroller, so you have voltage regulation already, not to mention the 5V from usb. All your points = invalid.

Um, I don't understand what use case you have that has a microcontroller and would ever want to use an FTDI chip. As you point out, if I have a microcontroller, I have voltage regulation, and I likely have USB and a UART.

I will point out that 5V USB isn't all that useful by itself. Most microcontrollers won't work natively at 5V, so you need a regulator, and you need to obey the USB inrush specs, and you probably need a switching regulator since you only nominally have 100mA (even though everything normally supplies more nowadays), etc.

There are only two times I want to use an FTDI chip:

1) I have some old thing that I have to update that A) uses RS232 and B) is standalone.

2) Somebody Else's Problem -- the software idiots are insisting on RS232 communication to something and that idea is stupid or redundant (it already has an SPI or I2C interface that is much better and there is a microcontoller). I can slap a USB micro connector and one of these chips on the board and tell the software guys to get lost until they pull their heads out of their asses.

Yes, but what you are trying to say is that oscillators and voltage reg are really complex and hard, but they aren't, parts that are half the cost have them and much much more complex functionality. The best argument I've seen so far is that the FTDI stuff has additional functions, like built in GPIO pins, which other USB-RS232 converters don't have. IMHO, the FTDI stuff is just way too expensive for what it does. For example, look at Silicon Labs C8051F387-GM. Tiny little chip, runs off of 2.7v to 5.25v, talks USB, has an internal oscillator, and costs $1.72 per unit. FT232RL only goes as cheap as $2.65 per unit if you order 2000. Talk about a major price difference...