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The sad truth is that this is due to a variety of problems at a variety of levels. Of course, all that follows is highly dependent on the team, hospital, and location.

A the lowest-level, you have doctors who're just assholes. Unfortunately, they don't do a good job at filtering out abrasive personalities upon entry to medical school. In fact, I'd say in some ways they self-select for that type of person. I've worked with heads of departments at huge hospitals who've openly discussed their salaries with me in patient rooms or brushed off a patient's concerns in a condescendingly paternalistic manner only to laugh with colleagues about it the second they step out of the patient's room. I've argued many times with specialists running their own clinic about their exorbitant fees and clever ICD-coding skills -- that some brag about developing -- to squeeze every penny out of insurers, all justified by "we've got to make a living." Assholes in medicine run rampant.

Up one level and you have the sheer morbid nature of medicine that physicians deal with on a day-to-day basis. I've given chest compressions to trauma patients with self-inflicted gunshot wounds to the head, and cleaned maggots out of a patient's festering diabetic foot. To the outsider, it is all incredibly shocking and gruesome, but as a physician you grow callous to it. Unfortunately, many times that means growing callous to all emotions and stunting your ability to empathize. Mix that with a superiority complex and you get things like Hispanic Hysteria Syndrome.

Go up a level and you've got a huge logistical and resource problem. Hospital physicians, particularly residents at teaching hospitals, are often overloaded with responsibilities and patients. They often feel they cannot give every patient and every obligation full and thorough attention because they are being bombarded by pages for new admissions, calls from other staff, etc. I have seen residents breeze through a list of patients, only giving minimal attention to each, just to avoid being chastised by a superior for not fulfilling all responsibilities in the short time allotted. And when you are severely limited to the number of open beds you have, and you've got a crowded ED, it becomes a game of who can we push out the fastest without killing.

At a higher level, you have a hospital who needs to keep the lights on, needs to pay salaries, needs to maximize profits and yet treat patients as best as they can. Unfortunately, many hospitals are being swindled by suppliers who're working through group buying organizations [1], inflating costs and making it difficult for hospitals to hit their margins.

There's a lot more I could go on about.




On the callous and condescending: I've wondered how much of that's inculcated by the ridiculous working hours required by residencies. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Residency_(medicine)#History_of... That's been criticized for causing lots of errors, but less immediately, after long enough, a gauntlet like that's bound to change you, right? I don't know, so I'm asking.


It's important to note that our current residency system has two important goals for a doctor's subsequent career:

Teaching you to make acceptable/the best possible/whatever decisions when you're tired/not at your best for whatever reasons, which will likely happen in the future.

Teaching you how to deal with extreme emergencies, e.g. http://stormdoctor.blogspot.com/2011/06/first-response-mode-..., which may not happen to you, but will statistically happen to a subset of doctors who go through the system.

WRT to that link on what happened in my home town May 23rd, 2011, the local medical response hundreds of lives that night, keeping the death toll down to ~ 160.


"Teaching you to make acceptable/the best possible/whatever decisions when you're tired/not at your best for whatever reasons, which will likely happen in the future"

And how does this makes sense? Aircraft pilots have rigid (well, in theory) schedule limits. Of course, this doesn't work all the time, but it's better to try to ensure they're rested than just make them "suck it up" no?


I challenged a friend of mine who works long shifts at an ER about why they allowed doctors to work tired, when other industries like airline pilots, air traffic controllers, truckers, even factory workers abide by restricted schedules to make sure they are well-rested.

He pointed out the caregiver handoff is also a source of errors--the departing doctor can't fully describe the history and their thought processes about every aspect of every patient they are treating. And people sometimes make mistakes on charts. He said the schedule at his hospital, at least, tries to strike a balance between continuity of care and fully rested doctors.


This is true to a certain extent. Another major factor is unavailability of suitably qualified and experienced doctors. Especially in high stress/low prestige specialties like emergency medicine.


OK. This actually makes sense. This seems like something that IBM Watson could make a dent in solving.


You're ignoring the much more strict training and operating systems in place for them, when an instructor pilot corrects their mistakes before they become fatal. Once they "graduate" to a certain level of pilot, or for a given plane model, they still have a copilot who they might be training, but who is also supposed to point out when they are making a mistake.

The demands are also different: pilots don't get called out of their normal schedule to be asked about a problem they observed with plane X the last time they flew it (rather, they're supposed to report it at the end of the flight and mechanics will look at it).

Emergencies also have a different nature, I gather its much more likely you'll be short flyable planes than air crews. A look at the Berlin airlift might be instructive. A book I recently read on the WWII air war in the South Pacific said that was true for both sides. Although of course the rules in wartime are different.


> Teaching you to make acceptable/the best possible/whatever decisions when you're tired/not at your best for whatever reasons, which will likely happen in the future.

It is sub-optimal (to the extent that people die) to train doctors how to make decisions when they're tired by forcing a bunch of doctors to be tired most of the time.

It's kind of surprising that clinician errors kill so few people - about 10,000 (ten thousand) per year in the US.


It would be interesting to know how many people are injured. It's unfortunate that "killed" is the threshold (in at least part since it is easy cutoff to define), when in reality we should be just as worried about permanent or long-term damage caused by bad decisions as well.


It is sub-optimal (to the extent that people die) to train doctors how to make decisions when they're tired by forcing a bunch of doctors to be tired most of the time.

It'll happen sooner or later, if not done during residency. But residencies have the advantage of a degree of supervision, and in a location where ... I hate to call it a support system, but, still, the people working with them know they're residents and expect them to green et. al.

The alternative is this happening when they're "on their own", even if part of a multi-doctor practice, clinic, ER or whatever. After residency they will statistically be making decisions when they're tired or otherwise not at their best. Didn't sleep well the night before, got woken up because one of their patients is in a crisis and their input is needed (although I gather that's less common nowadays), and there are the unexpected emergencies when their skills are needed without prior warning.

My take on the current system, butressed by all the doctors I've talked to about this, is that it's "optimal" when you consider all the factors. Just focusing on the residency period is insufficient to make a judgement.


But is there any actual evidence that the long shifts in residency actually improves future performance under those conditions?

It seems to me that it is mostly based on tradition and gut feeling.

Most of the issues with non-resident doctors working when tired could be fixed by increasing the number of doctors and physicians assistants. Of course physicians organizations fight against that as it would lead to lowering their income.


None of the examples I gave would be helped with increasing the number of doctors etc., except some emergency situations (in others, a finite number of doctors will be able to show up). As well as snowwrestler's point that the number of handoffs must be minimized, must be traded off with how long each doctor works.

I don't an practical means to obtain "actual evidence", it would require incredibly intrusive tracking of the careers of a bunch of doctors, and deciding the why of adverse outcomes is frequently going to be subjective.

I.e. was it the doctor or the patient? Which patients were more likely to have a bad outcome because of genetics or past history? The subject of "compliance" is sobering, sure you can prescribe a wonder drug, but you can't make the patient take it (aside from some TB regimens where compliance in taking a nasty multi-drug cocktail for 18 month or thereabouts is enforced).


I'm curious what percentage of people who come into an ER have routine problems, but are being sent to the ER because other components of the health care system either don't want to deal with them (because of lack of insurance, or other reasons) or are being overly cautious and advising them to go to the ER when it isn't necessary.

I've had two experiences when I was told to go to the ER even though it was completely unnecessary. Once I had a very painful hemorrhoid. I called the nurse's line for my insurance company and they told me to go to the ER immediately. This freaked me out, since I figured it was a minor (albeit painful) issue, so I called a doctor who was a friend of the family. He told me to just go to a walk-in clinic the next day (I didn't have a regular PCP) and that they might give me a referral to a surgeon, but most likely they would let it heal on its own.

A second time, I was out of state for the summer and needed a refill for a prescription. My doctor's office told me to go to a local ER.

I would imagine that having to handle both emergencies and also routine nonsense that should be handled elsewhere has got to be really grinding on an emergency department.


I am a current ED/A&E/ER Doc (in Australia). It's one of my 5 3 month first year terms. About 50% of presentations are for things that don't need to come through ed. Phone lines always say come I to ed because it is a get-out-of-jail. If they say carry on and you get hurt, they get sued. And it is near-impossible to do a proper consult with someone over the phone.

Having said that the Australian health system is so radically different to that of the US (for the better) that very little in the above article applies to my working conditions


If you find time, please do go on about it. It's very interesting.


I too am interested in a detailed treatment of the systemic multi-abstraction-layer analysis of the problems with healthcare. Especially if it is on audiobook.


+1 (Yes, I know it's bad form, but in since point counts on comments are invisible this is the only way to let the OP know that others are interested)


As well, +1 for kyro expanding and expounding. I would suggest there is an opportunity for a long form magazine piece, or perhaps a Kindle short.


OT, but you can see the score of your own posts.


Sure? The problem is that kyro can't see any potential upvotes on sillysaurus3 specifically asking for more.



> A the lowest-level, you have doctors who're just assholes.

I was physically assaulted by a doctor around six years ago, I would use a much harsher term than asshole.




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