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> could be ready for use in a decade.

That's the standard issue joke. "Nuclear fusion has been just ten years away for the last fifty years"

It is so common as a joke I'm surprised the article didn't mention it.



No, the standard joke is "thirty years away." Or at least it was. Strangely enough the number keeps decreasing with the passage of time.


Google Results: fusion "x years away"

10 - 765,000 results

15 - 9,730 results

20 - 793,000 results

25 - 8,750,000 results

30 - 709,000 results

35 - 4,700,000 results

40 - 472,000 results

45 - 10 results

50 - 493,000 results

Definitely not 45 years away.


Plotting a "Year vs Years away" graph would then give us a good estimation on when we can expect to meet that expectation.


If xkcd hasnt made that chart yet, it should!


Although this is related to artificial intelligence, http://intelligence.org/files/PredictingAI.pdf is an interesting study on expert predictions of future technology.


Hmm, although every successive year would contain (most) of the previous year's results, so there'll be a certain inertia.


Remembering that there's no possible way we could know how many years away a thing is; the numbers are clearly a guesstimate.

They're more of a rounded (hence the clustering at or away from given numbers) measure of the remaining 'effort' versus 'difficulty'. Very likely there is some absolute time required (experiments take time to run), but throwing more people (and more importantly, more resources to run experiments and gather data) at the problem /would/ get to an end result faster (though how much faster is open to debate; it's sort of like asking how much effort does it take to win a top 30th percentile prize from a lottery).


The fusion guys should have a meetup with the desktop linux guys.


What's different this time (yeah, I know, I know) is that, if what they and EMC2 are separately claiming is true, it's gone from being a fundamental physics problem to relatively tractable engineering, with well-understood risks and timelines.

Compare this with ITER, where they still don't know what material some fairly critical components can even be theoretically made of. It's just night and day.


>Compare this with ITER, where they still don't know what material some fairly critical components can even be theoretically made of. It's just night and day.

the Skunk Works and EMC2 haven't even reached the stage where they would face the same issue of material - all of them would ultimately have to contain the same type of fast neutrons and there is no good known material to do it.


That's true as far as it goes, but it's not the problem I was actually thinking of.

The problem is related to how you get rid of the post-fusion products. ITER is designed with divertor plates in the floor to scoop off the fusion ash and shunt them outside the core. My understanding is that these plates have to be a) solid, and b) capable of withstanding contact with absurdly high temperature plasma. There are some candidate materials which are hypothesised to be able to stand up to temperatures somewhere near what's required, but to my knowledge (which admittedly might be out of date) nothing's actually known to be suitable.

The reason I don't think the neutron absorption issue is such a problem here or on Polywell is because with a smaller reactor, replacing the vessel when it stops working is a far less terrifying prospect, even if you have to do so every few months. And even this is far less insane than some of the proposals for how you might do commercial laser fusion. That's just bananas.

Beyond that, you actually want some fast neutrons from the reaction to give you a tritium source.


What part of the reactor degrades so quickly? Can't it be replaced continuously? Why isn't the shielding done with some non-degradable matter, like water or some oil?


As an example of the problem, anything made of metal will become brittle. For why this might be a problem, take a look at what's in the middle of the ITER toroid: you've got a stack of magnetic coils, which have to be physically braced against a colossal magnetic repulsion by a great big pre-stressed metal core.

I'm sure someone at ITER has done the maths and figured out how long that core can last under operation before it becomes too brittle to keep the coils together, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if that was one of the reasons why ITER isn't designed for long-term power generation.


If the shielding is made of matter, then the nuclei of the atoms in that matter will absorb neutrons and become radioactive. Clearly the solution is to make it out of the many materials which are not composed of matter.


There are still some serious basic physics issues to be worked out.

They dismiss the concerns of the scientific community. Why shouldn't they? They're getting rich off of the ignorance of generals and venture capitalists.


My favorite form of the old joke is: "Nuclear Fusion is the energy of the future, and always will be."


The usual form I've seen for several decades now is 15 years, not 10, but, yeah...


It's not mentioned because it's tired, played out, and has no intellectual merit.


Aren't you being rather too hard on fusion there? I heard it could be just a decade or two away.


I was referring to the joke.




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