Ok let's take this to hand then and write a rational reply.
Every one of us can answer individually only with anecdotes, other than my wife who spent the best part of a decade dealing with drug addicts. They in turn dealt with the police who deal with the problem at the source. There are very few cases of "healthy" drug use, if any out there, at least in the UK as it stands.
Yes I do indeed want drugs to remain forbidden for everyone because the population is generally irresponsible and illogical and will quite happily smoke, drink and destroy each other. That's just the human race; at least 25% of it is self-destructive and the rest of us really want to protect our position. There's nothing wrong wit that. If the Westborough Baptist Church moved in next door, you'd be pissed off right? Well I don't really want my taxes taken and applied to addiction care or rehabilitation that is unnecessary. I want it to be applied to general healthcare to help me through my life.
I'm entitled to think that and vote for it - that's a democracy.
Regarding Portugal, that's quoted a lot but the fact is, if you read into it that they haven't legalised drugs at all. They have introduced possession limits at which point you are prosecuted. Selling drugs is still illegal. That's not blanket legalisation - that's a soundbite used by the pro-drug lobby, so stop quoting that horse shit.
For reference, HN decided I'd posted too much otherwise I'd have replied directly.
Mushrooms may have helped people but that's where recreational drug use and the medical sciences diverge. Anecdotes from the former and studies from the latter so it's little hypocritical saying what I'm saying is an anecdote and ending on one.
I have no problem with medical research being done and former recreational drugs being provided but only after someone has done an unbiased medical study and trialled it to the same standards as other medicines.
> Every one of us can answer individually only with anecdotes
Scientific studies as well.
> They in turn dealt with the police who deal with the problem at the source.
In the United States, this is not the case at all. The police go after black people disproportionately when white people consume drugs at pretty much the same rate.
> There are very few cases of "healthy" drug use, if any out there, at least in the UK as it stands.
No basis/evidence for this belief.
> Well I don't really want my taxes taken and applied to addiction care or rehabilitation that is unnecessary.
Have you considered the possibility that it might be cheaper in the long run to legalize drugs?
> Regarding Portugal, that's quoted a lot but the fact is, if you read into it that they haven't legalised drugs at all.
I specifically said "decriminalization".
> They have introduced possession limits at which point you are prosecuted. Selling drugs is still illegal. That's not blanket legalisation - that's a soundbite used by the pro-drug lobby, so stop quoting that horse shit.
I thought you were writing a rational reply? I nowhere mentioned that Portugal legalized drugs. Decriminalization is, however, a step towards legalization.
"... less teen drug use, fewer HIV infections, fewer AIDS cases and more drugs seized by law enforcement. Adult drug use rates did slightly increase — but this increase was not greater than that seen in nearby countries that did not change their drug policies. The use of drugs by injection declined."
But that's just horse shit, right?
> Anecdotes from the former and studies from the latter so it's little hypocritical saying what I'm saying is an anecdote and ending on one.
I'm not using anecdotes as the basis for argument for/against drug legalization. I was pointing it out for you to consider since you are.
> The UK uses the same policy as Portugal i.e. soft enforcement with the same immediate effects.
No, it really doesn't. For very small amounts of cannabis people mght get an on the spot fine (£90) and a warning - this has effects on CRB checks and visa and etc. please stop spreadin the myth that England has decriminalised cannabis.
And it's certainly not thecase for heroin nor crack.
> my wife who spent the best part of a decade dealing with drug addicts.
Here's the problem with the experience of your wife (or anyone in medicine): selection bias. She only sees drug users whose use is a problem.
Even if positive drug experiences outnumbered negative ones ten-to-one, a hundred-to-one or even a million-to-one your wife would still have the same subjective impression: that all the drug users she sees are people who can't handle it. Same thing with the police officers. If somebody does drugs a few times and finds it a positive life experience, they probably don't go to a hospital or deal with cops.
Steve Jobs claimed taking LSD was one of the most important experiences in his life - he took it a dozen or so times (and smoked pot weekly for about 5 years). Many other people have made major creative breakthroughs or used these drugs to successfully deal with PTSD or depression. There is an upside. Your wife's experience by its very nature will never encounter that upside. So what she tells you is data, but not definitive data. You need to put it in a larger context to reach conclusions...which is where large-scale studies, Portugal and the rest comes in.
Every one of us can answer individually only with anecdotes, other than my wife who spent the best part of a decade dealing with drug addicts. They in turn dealt with the police who deal with the problem at the source. There are very few cases of "healthy" drug use, if any out there, at least in the UK as it stands.
Yes I do indeed want drugs to remain forbidden for everyone because the population is generally irresponsible and illogical and will quite happily smoke, drink and destroy each other. That's just the human race; at least 25% of it is self-destructive and the rest of us really want to protect our position. There's nothing wrong wit that. If the Westborough Baptist Church moved in next door, you'd be pissed off right? Well I don't really want my taxes taken and applied to addiction care or rehabilitation that is unnecessary. I want it to be applied to general healthcare to help me through my life.
I'm entitled to think that and vote for it - that's a democracy.
Regarding Portugal, that's quoted a lot but the fact is, if you read into it that they haven't legalised drugs at all. They have introduced possession limits at which point you are prosecuted. Selling drugs is still illegal. That's not blanket legalisation - that's a soundbite used by the pro-drug lobby, so stop quoting that horse shit.
For reference, HN decided I'd posted too much otherwise I'd have replied directly.
Mushrooms may have helped people but that's where recreational drug use and the medical sciences diverge. Anecdotes from the former and studies from the latter so it's little hypocritical saying what I'm saying is an anecdote and ending on one.
I have no problem with medical research being done and former recreational drugs being provided but only after someone has done an unbiased medical study and trialled it to the same standards as other medicines.