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I live in Berlin and this is extremely satisfying. I'm beginning to doubt that Silicon Valley startups have any clue how European cities work. We germans in general are weary of evil, predatory enterprises that start a spiral to the bottom.

Jest aside: This is just not how things work here, for good or bad. I think there's also not that much room for disruption in the Uber case, at least in Germany. The market for cabs is very much unlike the market in the US - there's not a single huge company owning all the cabs in Berlin and a medallion does not cost a million EUR. Service has been pretty ok for me so far and I use a lot of cabs, so I actually don't see much of an upside but I do see a lot of potential downsides, not that much for me who could easily afford a surge pricing but for people that maybe can't and have to rely on regular cabs.




The taxis here in Berlin even have an app that is quite similar to how you order an Uber. Though of course you still have to pay at the end of the ride with cash or card.


You can pay your taxi ride in app as well. [1]

[1] https://de.mytaxi.com/en/fahrgast.html


>>> I think there's also not that much room for disruption in the Uber case, at least in Germany

I suspect there is, otherwise there would be no need to ban it.


They haven't banned Uber, just required that they follow the laws and regulations that everybody else has to follow. Once Uber does that then they're free to operate in Germany.


"A court in Frankfurt has ordered the smartphone application 'Uber' to stop its transportation services in Germany"

Is this not a ban? Are you saying Uber drivers weren't following the regulations every other driver in Germany has to follow - they were not obeying traffic laws, not holding driving licenses, etc.? No, they didn't follow additional regulations that not everybody has to follow.


Ride sharing is completely legal in Germany, the court order makes the difference between ride sharing (which is unregulated) and ride sharing FOR PROFIT, which, in Germany, is a regulated market.

So no, it's not a ban. It's the requirement to make business akin to getting your business registered.


Wait, so it's OK for one person to give a ride to another person, on the same vehicle, on the same road, at the same time, but it's not OK to give the same ride if after the ride one person gives money to another person - and the reason is that is the second case the driver and the vehicle (the same driver and the same vehicle!) is less safe? How that even makes any sense?


This case is not about safety. It's an unfair competition case.

Transporting people for money is heavily regulated in Germany on various grounds, one being safety, others are that Taxis count as public transport in germany and must fulfill certain obligations ranging from mandatory service for anyone at the same rate to transporting disabled people to the doctor (yes, that's done by Taxis as long as those people can still enter a Taxi). Uber is avoiding the regulations in an attempt to save money and be more profitable. This has been judged as an unfair business practice and so Uber faces two options: Stop offering UberPop or comply with the regulations.

The fact that private insurances don't cover commercial rides has a multitude of reasons, one of them is that statistically speaking it's more likely that a commercial driver has an accident since he's more likely to get a significantly higher mileage and more likely to drive at night. But that's a deal between the insurance company and the driver, the law only cares that you own a valid insurance, not about the exact terms.


Giving money is not the same as making profit as there are cost attached to driving a vehicle. It's OK if you reimburse the driver for his cost but once you start making profit things are different, then it becomes a business and as Xylakant said, the insurance doesn't cover that.

Since it's mandatory in Germany to be insured when you drive a car, that becomes Ubers's culprit, that they chose to ignore, potentially at the cost of leaving someone without insurance coverage in case of an accident.

That is unacceptable by the German rules and that's why the decision has been made in an express decision by the court.


In America:

1) take a parcel from your home to the post office. Have an accident on the way.

2) take a parcel from your employer to the post office. Have an accident on the way.

In 1) you're probably insured. In 2) you're probably not insured.

This small amount of extra regulation covers every commercial operator.


They are being stopped from operating without taxi permits and licensed vehicles. So that's not a blanket ban as far as I can see.


That's like saying "we're not banning drugs, we're just banning drugs unless you're a surgeon that needs drugs to sedate a patient". Effectively, that's banning what they're doing, if they wanted to open a taxi company that'd be completely different business.


There is a difference between banning and regulating. If a certain culture finds that certain businesses better be regulated for whatever reason (and your exsmple is actually a good one) that's OK and must be followed.

Take for instance the FDA that heavily heavily regulates the US market. I could argue that I as a customer should be able to choose myself what I eat and drink, yet that's not the case.

You may call that cartel, mafia, whatever you want but it's how administrations work..


It's not a blanket ban – UberBlack can still operate, because UberBlack follows the regulations. UberPool isn't banned either.

It's only UberPop, which tries to operate without a license as a for-profit service.

And imagine a UberPop driver hits you with his car – he would be not insured (regular insurance doesn't cover commercial activity), so you would have to pay your own medical treatment (getting broken bones together, etc) on your own, because the driver had no license.


> if they wanted to open a taxi company that'd be completely different business.

The German courts disagree with you on that one. You can like it or not but they get to have the last say in this.


It sounds more like "we're not banning drugs, just that if you make a business that involves sedating people then you need to follow certain rules. If you do surgery below cost then you are free to use the drugs."


By that argument I could say that the drug market in the US is in dire need of disruption, since otherwise there'd be no need to ban the sale of cocaine at Walmart.


War on Drugs is the worst thing that happened in US politics in 20th century, but discussing this topic would take us too far aside. In this case, the ban was clearly initiated by competitors (while in Walmart's case it has nothing to do with banning drugs) - the article itself says "The preliminary injunction comes in response to a lawsuit by the national association of taxi drivers." Nobody claims driving is bad - they just claim the other guy can't be allowed to do it.


No, the claim is that by skirting the Personenbeförderungsgesetz (Law on transporting people), Uber is violating the the law about unfair competition. Any competitor in germany can sue any competitor on those grounds: If you engage in unfair business practices you'll be fined.

Nobody claimed (at least in this case) that Uber itself should be banned - UberBlack is unaffected by this injunction. Ubers unfair business practices have been banned.


It is not banned, they are being told to ensure they meet the minimum legal requirements such as car safety and driver safety checks.


These requirements are not "minimum" - as there are thousands of drivers in Germany that are not required to meet those requirements. I myself was driving in Germany, more than once, without meeting any such requirements. However, somehow the same drivers which were completely safe a minute ago flooding all German roads without any "minimum requirements" become critically unsafe - so unsafe that they must be banned - as soon as they try to earn money. Though the same unsafe drivers are allowed to continue driving freely - as long as they do not take money. The only thing that changes is if the same drivers take money or not - and you're saying it is about safety?


Taxis operate under very different conditions than normal cars.

Most peoples cars are parked at least 20h a day. Taxis on the other hand are often operated in shifts and are in operation 24/7. This has significant effects on how much maintenance is required, how likely an accident is etc. this in turn results in potentially higher costs for insurance, requires more frequent checkups.

In addition a driver's license in Germany never expires, unless you violate any laws you can never lose it. That may or may not be reasonable for people driving a private car, it's a lot less reasonable for people operating a car commercially and potentially with passengers. Passengers who have the reasonable expectation of having a driver who's healthy enough to drive.


Let's assume you drive in Germany and take an Uber passenger and get involved in an accident fatal for the pax, after you fail to reanimate him and your tires are slightly overdue for a change. The family sues you for reckless driving and causing the death of your pax, in the first instance the court finds you guilty.

Now how do you argue that the requirements are not minimum? How do you pay for the damage? Do you expect legal protection from Uber? Do you think they would provide you with that, in Germany?

Do you actually know about the legal system in Germany or how can you make a statement about the level of requirements?


It is obviously for the passenger's safety and convenience, not for the driver's.


These rquirements are the minimum for commercial drivers.




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