So, traveling to the location of the monkeys, bringing photography gear (that would otherwise not be there), putting batteries and a card in the camera, turning the camera on, setting the proper exposure in the camera, and intending to produce photos of monkeys... that amounts to "zero creative input"? The photographer did nearly everything here but press a button that makes an interesting sound (from the monkey's perspective).

> So, traveling to the location of the monkeys, bringing photography gear (that would otherwise not be there), putting batteries and a card in the camera, turning the camera on, setting the proper exposure in the camera, and intending to produce photos of monkeys... that amounts to "zero creative input"?

Precisely. It's heartening that you understand this so well. As you have correctly discerned, none of those acts are in the least bit creative. They are essential preparations for creativity, but they are not themselves creative. The creativity comes solely from the creation of the particular image - the act of capturing a chosen scene in a chosen way.

As another example, if the photographer had done those things, then handed his camera to a random passer-by and had them take a photograph, then the copyright in that photograph would belong entirely to the passer-by. This is a matter of settled law which is beyond any doubt, and for exactly the reasons you outlined - the preparative steps are not part of the creative act.

Random passerby's indicates another human, who the law indicates can create a work of art. Animals aren't recognized as such. If he accidentally tripped, and the shutter went off, does that mean he loses copyright if the camera happened to take something interesting?

No, he doesn't lose copyright, he simply never gets it in the first place since he doesn't meet the criteria set down by law.

In the US you can't get a copyright on a database at all. I doubt you could get it in the EU for a database created by a random accident either.

None which has anything to do with the fact that if the monkey hadn't pressed the button we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

The thick of the creative input here was made by the monkey. The photographer's input would be at best a minor contribution; the light settings and particular choice of gear add very little to the original content of the image, and the particular framing and circumstances were not purposely influenced by the photographer.

If he had purposely allowed the monkey to take the gear to experiment with it then there would have been a creative intention that would have value, but as it stands it doesn't convince me much.

> There are artists who "paint" with bacteria and other live organisms. The bacteria may be producing nearly 100% of the final image (the only reason the works are noteworthy), and in many cases, the result may not be entirely anticipated by the artist. That doesn't mean the bacteria owns the copyright.

But the artist has deliberately set the experiment and put the culture in place to produce things.

In order to make it a valid analogy, the photographer should have acted in a way that purposely invited the monkey to take the camera.

This is did not happen; it was entirely an accident, and his creative input is a question of luck, whereby anyone else who carried a camera and had it stolen by a monkey who clicked around and got a selfie has the same level of input.

Really, this is all just because the guy is a professional who expects to get paid for this, but his experience in the matter has had zero influence on the result.

If I went to Southeast Asia, got my camera stolen by a monkey and had published, I did nothing special to merit attribution.

Honestly, if he had wanted to take the credit for the framing and the positioning then at least he could have done something slighly more elaborate on the matter. A selected curation of those pictures, structured as a narrative, well framed, and placed as an exhibition with accompanying material would have sufficient artistic merit. Instead he chooses to bitch about it on the Internet.

What if you go on an expedition specifically to get monkeys to take photos for you? What if you trained them? Is there some threshold amount of work you could put in before you could claim copyright, or would it always belong to the monkey?

If the monkeys were trained well enough to understand the intent of taking a photo, but not well enough to understand a contract of employment, then creatively I think they would have to own the work.

The fact that the monkey is not trained in pointing a camera is one of the things that might swing it legally away from consideration of ownership by the monkey.

Can a monkey own a thing under the law?

It's an animal. It can be owned, but it cannot itself own something.

Animals have been prosecuted as people a number of times in many different countries under the law. I don't see any absolute reason that they could not be granted ownership of something. Even if there was a specific law stating that this was not true, one of the moves available in the game of law is to change the law. Law is a subset of Calvinball.

If you're training a monkey who has no concept of art but you'll be orchestrating their actions for aesthetics according to your criteria then it seems evident that it qualifies for your authorship given your clear intent at achieving that specific action.

Like most things, it gets looked at on a case by case basis.

>No - they are credited, but the director is the one who created the circumstances under which the camera operator's actions capture the essential product of a whole team's work, guided by the director. //

The director here is the monkey, the photog was the technician that made available the equipment but any artistic input to the shot was apparently the monkey's.

Similarly if you do camera setup for David Hockney you don't get ownership of the shot rights because he only pressed the trigger.

Copyright isn't necessarily about who did the work, it's about who did the specific creative work at the point of creation, here no person did. There is a fine line between this an setting up a photo trap for wildlife imaging, but that line is intent and, whilst fine, is clearly enough demarked to see where this case lies IMO.

I've recollection of a similar case being heard but not of the details, nor even the jurisdiction TBH ... anyone?

The camera owner did everything but actually aim the camera, pretty much the entire creative process.