A number of comments here are pointing out the considerable barriers to migration away from Microsoft based systems; back end systems; file compatibility with MS Office formats; training needs for significantly different interfaces on a 'desktop' system.
The UK govts recent suggestion that we require open formats may begin to address one of those issues [1]. The move to more recent browser mediated applications might mitigate another. A new generation will have grown up with devices that probably don't run Windows [2] and that might reduce the training issues associated with UI changes.
Can I turn the question round: how many decades do we think that the default systems for large enterprises and governments will be provided by Microsoft?
And if a country as huge as India with a developed IT workforce of the kind India has decides to start a migration programme, the resulting pool of skilled people and working software (GPL Licensed software) would make future migrations that much easier. I personally wish the UK had a Munich or two simply so we can develop the skills here.
Having spent some time in India dealing with scattered govt. Windows infrastructure, this is amazing news. This may also open up many new opportunities in computer education and literacy which is very deficient in the country. I really hope this switch does happen.
Which I read as the point that the parent post was making: India can 'pull itself up by its bootstraps' by using the pool of Linux/BSD oriented developers to help a large scale migration project thus further developing the skills base.
Slightly off note, but any movement by the Indian government should be appreciated, considering how much inertia they have :) More on the topic - way back in 1995 when CD-ROM drives became affordable and popular in India [1], I expected Linux to thrive in the country considering how nobody, especially students and enthusiasts, had the money to buy legit copies of Windows. Sadly that never happened. At least the universities could have done their bit to teach and promote Linux, but they too didn't.
[1] Internet connections were so slow that it was impossible for most people to download a Linux distro on off the internet. But there were a lot of computer magazines distributing various Linux distros on CDs for a Rs. 100 or thereabout.
> Internet connections were so slow that it was impossible for most people to download a Linux distro on off the internet. But there were a lot of computer magazines distributing various Linux distros on CDs for a Rs. 100 or thereabout.
As a teenager, the only Internet access I could afford was Netzero. Any time I had $13 to spare, I'd head to Books-a-Million and buy a copy of the Linux Format, if only so I could upgrade my Linux partition. Good times :) Do Linux mags still come with discs?
In particular, the Department of General Education of the state of Kerala (more than 12,000 schools, about 6 million students, and about 200,000 teachers [1]) heavily promotes FOSS software both as a medium of teaching (all subjects, not just ICT) and as a tool for administration. This initiative is called the "IT@School Project" [2], and they develop and use their own customized version of Ubuntu (called "IT@School GNU/Linux" [3]) in all their schools. They do quite a bit of customization to adapt available FOSS software to the needs of their audience (which is drawn from all strata of society; this is (almost) free and compulsory education provided by the state).
The project uses customized FOSS software, such as Dr. Geo, Rasmol, K-Tech lab, Geogebra, Chemtool, and Kalcium [4], to teach various subjects. They also have ICT as a separate subject starting from Class 4 (9-year olds). As part of this, they start teaching programming (in Python, and using games, graphics, and other age-appropriate methods, and starting very gently) from Class 4. (They also teach a lot of other stuff.)
The project implements a lot of e-governance programs using FOSS software. This includes [4]:
1. A single-window admission system for higher-secondary education
2. Computerization of the program of providing free lunch in schools
3. Online transfer and posting of teachers
4. Software for administering the state's annual Youth Festival
(Arts competitions. Around 10,000 participants this year, often touted as Asia's largest such event.)
5. ERP software for arts festivals at the school level.
6. Software for administering scholarships
7. Centralised online textbook intend system
8. Payroll administration for teachers and other staff in the department
9. Software for monitoring physical fitness programmes in schools
(In case you are wondering: every school is provided a (paid-for) broadband connection as well.)
They estimate that the shift to FOSS has saved the state quite a bit of money already [5]:
"The Project has supplied thousands of computers and laptops to schools in the state. about 50,000 computers to schools. The proprietary OS and other application software come with a price tag of about Rs. 10,000/- per PC. By deploying Free Software based Operating System and applications instead of Proprietary software , IT@School Project is able to save an amount of Rs.11 Crores (Rs. 110 million) each year. Also the Educational content like interactive multimedia CDs are now being developed on free software platform, resulting in a savings of Rs. 75 lakhs (Rs. 7.5 million). The examination software which was developed using free software has effected in a savings of about Rs. 25 lakhs (Rs. 2.5 millon)."
In the downloads section, the most recent ISO I can see (the one with the highest version number) is 3.8 and that is a Debian Lenny based system. Anything newer available for public download?
For people wondering about BOSS linux, it is Debian based, and is bundled with LibreOffice, Gnome, Iceweasel (browser) etc. the usual stuff and is distributed by CDAC Chennai. CDAC Chennai adds value to the distro by providing support (they have a toll free number where anyone call for any doubts in relation to BOSS), ensuring all the drivers of local printers are present, local fonts are all set up and working right from the beginning. They also provide training when any govt. department switches to BOSS.
Source - I worked in CDAC Chennai and was involved in a project related to BOSS, and quite a few depts. were switching to BOSS while I was there (2 yrs back)
(I think other Spanish regions have talked about wanting to use more open source software, but that might be LibreOffice rather than MS Office, rather than a full switch away from Windows.)
Wow, I love that sign! It has such a classic Soviet propaganda feel, it's appears to be entirely hand-painted despite the fact that it's offering computer courses (hand done sign lettering is a dying art in the West), and it has an awesome retro-futuristic robot!
Now I'm wondering what those dates on the bottom refer to.
This is probably just to make it look like they do learn stuff on computers, but the level of poverty in NK is so appalling I doubt they have computers in most schools.
Oh, most people in NK never get a sniff of a computer. But it has some animation and IT-outsourcing businesses which are no doubt a nice little foreign-currency earner for the government:
I don't remember all details now, but the Air Force I am sure their official policy is that all their desktop machines run Ubuntu and all their server machines run Debian.
The Army and Navy don't have a broad policy like this, but also has lots of FOSS-related use and work.
Also Brazil government has several state companies that develop FOSS software, but several places still unfortunately rely too much on Microsoft (usually in the judiciary and executive branches)
Kerela has 100% literacy rate , not so true for the rest of the country where the majority live in villages. It's tough to even get these kids to come out and study.
Even urban city engineering schools use pen , paper and drawing abilities of a left brained person for grading.
This may come as a bit skeptical, but IMHO the large scale adaptation of a Linux distro in Indian state departments seems a long way to. The lack of Linux operational training to the personnel along with replacement costs may call for an early demise to the plan to switch to Linux. While it does sound promising, the average government clerk in India, is computer literate in terms of Microsoft Office suite. Replacement of MS Office with Libre/Open Office suite itself is a big hurdle which in terms of usability is still in its early days. In addition, most systems on government offices I've seen run IE8 as their primary browsers, running applications "designed for IE only". I believe that if the switch to a Linux distro is to be made, the government should start with replacing leagcy windows software with their open source, linux compatible counterparts, before making the big move.
I was also skeptical till I noticed 2 huge deployments 1.Cafe Cofee Day is India's largest chain of cafes, sort of India's Starbucks. Their billing machines seem to be a custom Linux that boots into a console application (tastefully made)that's used for billing, taking orders at the counter, upload data etc. 2. Life Insurance Corporation (LIC) of India the country's largest Insurance company with thousands of branches has rolled out Linux desktops a couple of years back.
I would just like to add that in some cases linux can be better than windows at emulating old dos applications. I believe some large companies write application code based in the console because they stream the applications from some central server and not having a GUI puts less stress on the network, this is especially true for older companies. I worked at a call center for a while and we used multiple ancient dos applications running on windows xp to fill orders. The only other thing the desktops were used for was logging into your personal account and approving hours and looking at your schedule, which was done through some web app.
I don't think that is true, especially for Windows 7. But there are other issues to consider. Windows 7 is from 2009 and is still supported until 2020 (!). There is no Linux distribution outside RHEL and probably SLES that provides such long support cycles.
And even the comparison with RHEL is not really fair. New applications will continue to be compatible with Windows 7 for many years, while with RHEL you are mostly stuck with what you get with a particular version. EPEL et al. do provide some relief.
Suggesting that Xubuntu is a viable replacement is disingenuous - Xubuntu 12.04 LTS is supported until 2015. Let's take vanilla Ubuntu 12.04 for the sake of the argument. It's supported until 2017. A large organisation will not deploy a new system when it is released (many organisations are migrating to Windows 7 four or five years after the release). So, let's say that they deploy it now. That's only good for three years of support. So, in three years you have to redo the whole migration. Users have to be retrained now for GNOME 2 and in 2017 for Unity. You see where it is going, it is a mess.
Of course, then there is the issue that many existing Windows software doesn't work on Linux, compatibility of LibreOffice with Office documents, etc.
Linux on the enterprise desktop is usually not a viable option, except if you already have good infrastructure to support and maintain it (e.g. Google), or for a subset of users (e.g. developers).
> supported until 2020 (!). There is no Linux distribution outside RHEL
The RHEL derivates such as CentOS or Scientific Linux provide such long support.
> that many existing Windows software doesn't work on Linux, compatibility of LibreOffice with Office documents, etc
There is Wine which allows to run Windows programs on Linux just fine. I am still using Office 2000. Compatibility is also problem with newer Windows and I would say that in long run Linux will be more compatible with WinXP than Windows themselfs. Microsoft seems very eager to drop old functions to boosts its sales.
You are also forgetting that upgrading Linux is usually much easier. MS is changing UI every version and it requires retraining users and administrators.
> There is no Linux distribution outside RHEL and probably SLES that provides such long support cycles.
The article talks about an indian, debian based distribution called BOSS[1]. No doubt the company providing it will be more than happy to also provide long term support, or easy migrations as part of a huge support contract with the indian government.
But isn't the main problem with using an unsupported version of windows security vulnerabilities which are impossible to patch? This isn't true for Linux in any sense. If by "support" you mean tech support, then you don't really need an "official maintainer" for that.
There isn't much of a training cost associated with upgrading to Windows 7. The Start Button has been replaced with a round icon, true, but it's in the same position and the start menu, itself, operates much as the one in Windows XP. Upgrading to Windows 8, yes, is a much more involved process and would involve much more user training.
But, really, that's just sidestepping the issue. The real issue is that user documents are in Microsoft Word, Excel and Powerpoint formats, and, despite improvements, Open/Libre Office support for those documents is not nearly good enough to support moving to Linux full time.
This actually leads to another question I've had. We see all these announcements about cities, states, and regional governments moving to Linux. Of those, how many actually go through with the move? How many have stuck with Linux 2 years out? 5 years out? It's impossible to say whether Linux is actually viable on the (corporate) desktop without knowing if these Linux migrations ever actually take place, and, if they take place, whether Linux manages to stick, or if there's another migration back to Windows once it becomes clear that Linux doesn't yet do the job for end-users.
> How many have stuck with Linux 2 years out? 5 years out?
IT@School (see another comment for details) seems to have stuck with it for at least 6 years, to go by the retrospective on their webpage [1]. And they show no signs of migrating back to Windows yet.
It may have helped that in this case, there was (AFAIK) no widespread officially sanctioned use of Windows for governmental purposes to start with. I don't think MS could get their foot in the door in any meaningful way before the FOSS spirit took over. I do faintly remember MS trying to lure the government with nominally priced e-governance offers, though.
Hope "may" changes to "will" in coming future . Not just state departments but infrastructure services here use windows , e.g.: metro stations , ATM machines . Switch can help to save money which can be used in other developments much needed for the society without comprising efficiency of governance.
I've seen ATM's being serviced/refilled - one can usually spot a "tower" PC in there. When an ATM app crashes the underlying PC operating system GUI is visible - with the standard screen background.
OTOH my <big bank in India> has good online services, usage pattern monitoring, two-factor authentication etc. With this bank I've never had a single online transaction as much as hang or go wrong in the past 10 years. When I travel I sometimes get a call to verify the transaction I've just made at an ATM.
So the only conclusion I can draw is that the bank finds it easier to monitor/control things from their data center. They probably consider all terminals as vulnerable and operate from that premise.
> “Consider installing BOSS [Bharat Operating System Solutions] Linux as one of the mandatory operating system,”
It would be good for India to take control over it's own operating system. It would open up their market of software developers. Making the Linux community stronger is another strong benefit for everybody.
It's about time. In fact, it's way past time. But don't expect Microsoft to give up without a great deal more fight, a legal challenge or two, and other tactics from their vast playbook.
Your "except" is pretty big to be put in "except".
Apart from that, simply resistance from users, who are not really "computer people" and basically know that clicking the "w" icon launches the application on which letters can be drafted, is not a small matter. I hope the training programmes are well planned to cover that aspect.
Resistance to change from non "computer people", as you put it, has nothing to do with something Microsoft can do.
And concerning the bribery, yes, I wouldn't be surprised if it was one of the main reason linux and free software in general didn't get more adoption.
I know this is completely tangential, but I am hoping someone can enlighten me. What's the best way to think about or explain the prevalence of grammatical errors in the Indian English-language press?
Is it because Indian English is its own distinct dialect or variation with different rules, similar to differences between American and British English?
Is it because English is fundamentally a lingua franca in India where nobody is expected to really master the grammar, including the press?
Is it because the press in India doesn't consider it important? I know in my local press in the US I've seen many more typographical and grammatical errors creep in since newspapers went into decline a few years ago.
Or is there something else explaining it which I have not imagined?
Isn't there also the global decline of english quality because of it being broadly used on internet by non native speakers? Many people (including me) get influenced by what they read on the net, to the point of accepting some of the strange forms you describe further down. There's also a global lack of proofreading all across the web, people editing content through web interfaces, on devices not supporting even simple spellchecking. English on the multicultural web is a strange melting pot of english forms and foreign ones being shoehorned in english. How much is (the)[1] american english influenced by spanish for instance, given the growing incidence of the spanish speaking population for the last few decades?
[1] Here I'm not even sure if I need to use "the" there. In my native language I would have to use it, but isn't the expression "american english" specific enough to avoid the need of it?
If I may ask: Did you find such errors in the linked article? Is this what prompted your question?
"The Hindu" (linked in the post) is one newspaper which takes these things seriously. They even have an "ombudsman" of sorts (whom they call the "Reader's Editor") and they encourage readers to write in to this person pointing out all sorts of mistakes, including grammatical [1].
Constraints of the printed page would also explain some of the "different" language which one finds in newspapers.
I did find some errors in the article, albeit many of them were in the quotes from government communications. My question was prompted by this as well as the experience I've had reading newspapers and magazines in India during visits I've made. The tone and language used in the Indian press is often quite striking when compared to other English language press.
Many of the errors were in the quotes, but there are some in the article itself. Some of the errors that stood out to me were simply the omission of the word "the", for example
"With the Microsoft Corporation deciding to stop technical assistance for Windows XP operating system next month, the Tamil Nadu government has advised all its departments to install free open source software BOSS Linux."
Just as the author uses "the" in "the Microsoft Corporation" I expect to see "the Windows XP operating system" and "the open source software BOSS Linux"
Here is another:
"many of them continued to Windows XP use as the primary operating system"
Sentences like this one stand out as well:
"The prompt for the present advisory is the Microsoft decision as a result of which security updates or technical support for Windows XP operating system would not be discontinued after April 8."
The article was just poorly proofread, that's all. The Hindu should have better editorial standards than this. p.s. I'm Indian, and I don't think any claim that this article represents 'Indian English' -- I'm not even sure what that means -- makes sense.
Thanks, I read that article. Do you think Indian English is strictly colloquial similar to the dialects of English we have in the US? Or does it have its own accepted grammar enforced by proofreaders and copy editors?
For example African American Vernacular (aka ebonics) and Southern American English both have their own Wikipedia pages as well, but you would never find the Washington Post or New York Times using them in an article.
> Thanks, I read that article. Do you think Indian English is strictly colloquial similar to the dialects of English we have in the US? Or does it have its own accepted grammar enforced by proofreaders and copy editors?
I'd suggest that's a distinction without a difference. Or to be more precise, it's a distinction whose difference - the level of official ossification built up around the dialect - isn't really relevant to the question because it has more to do with external factors, and little to do with the language's actual developmental status.
For example, American and British English have crossed the boundary that you propose despite being so similar that native speakers are often hesitant to even regard them as different dialects. But they do have separate rulebooks, because at some point in the past few centuries Americans of high social rank decided that England's culture was no longer the ideal to which they should continue to aspire.
On the other hand, take Haitian Creole and French, which are so different as to not really even be mutually intelligible. But up until very recently Creole did not have an official grammar (or even spelling) enforced by proofreaders and copy editors. How come? Well, Creole's spoken by poor people, and French is spoken by rich people. Rich people set up the social institutions you propose, and for a long time they had a strong interest in maintaining French as the only official dialect.
The example is extreme, but I hope it does illustrate that there are actually two different continua at play here, and while they may be correlated they aren't closely tied together.
OSS, the order said, “is almost free of virus. Hence loss of information, hacking, phishing can be prevented… there is no need to spend on expensive anti virus software.”
The general threat model for Linux systems is outdated installations with extant security holes, often remotely exploitable. This is in contrast with Windows in which a huge class of exploits are by way of content placed by users on their own systems, more often technically trojans than viruses.
This isn't to say that Linux is wholly immune to security exploits. It's not. But it's hugely more manageable and securable than Windows is, even in more recent versions. Which, though they've addressed much of the problem, still leave huge classes of vulnerabilities open.
The ability to configure minimal systems on Linux (principle of least privilege) with only the software and services required for functionality helps hugely in this.
To be honest, it is possible to configure windows (starting from XP) with a minimal set of enabled capabilities. The system policies mechanism is quite featurefull, and you lock a system down to minimal rights. It is also possible to deploy system patches and updates locally to a domain from the server (what they call a domain controller) comfigured to do so. In fact you can pretty much control any client associated to a domain relotely with the right access token.
Imho, the main issue is more in:
- setting up the right set of policies, it's a difficult task. On a unix system, the problem is probably easier to tackle because the first (simpler) layer of security implemented through the file system (linux for instance provides a more elaborated capability mechanism, many others unix also each have their own implementations of a policy/capability mechanism).
- letting end users having too much control on their computer, because often time they wish to install all sort of products on their own (this is especially true of developpers, but usually computer literates are more security minded than the lambda user). With web apps, this problem is nowadays shifted toward the browser, so maybe this problem isn't as much of an issue as it was 10 years ago for system wide policy enforcement (but as I said it is now one at the browser level).
I agree with you. Using OSS doesn't mean that you will have no software vulnerabilities, but when was the last time you heard a major news story about a Linux based virus?
The sad thing is, more widespread, high profile (eg government) deployment will likely increase the amount of those news stories. Until now attacking desktop Linux with viruses was simply not worth it.
I don't know about credibility but I use clamav and it was able to detect a (windows?) virus on my USB stick when I plugged it in while running Linux and removed the virus as well. That was useful.
I think the main difficulty in migration from windows XP to linux is leaving word, excel, outlook, ie and powerpoint. If users have already migrated to open alternatives (libre office, ...), the OS switch is almost transparent.
I don't think Microsoft Office is any better than LibreOffice for general users. Most of the Indian government officials are tad computer illiterate. They would not know what they use.
even basic things in Excel are not supported in libreoffice, such as validations.
I recently attempted to move everyone in my office to libreoffice where possible and was met with a very large resistence from people who's spreadsheets simply did not work.
it's hard telling people that they have to edit functions/macros that were set up by someone smarter than them 10 years ago.
I think you should not club the two points together. Your first point makes a lot of sense because even if you say that the Indian government officials were "tad computer illiterate", LibreOffice is still not an acceptable replacement majorly due the UI and the loss of basic features.
I think LibreOffice UI falls into acceptable category. It might not be the most polished UI but it gets the work done efficiently. There is not much difference in productivity in two acceptable UIs.
A UI can be thought of being easy-to-use with the frequency of usage. I have been using Linux for many years. Now, whenever I use Windows the only thought in my mind is how can someone use a software so clumsy.
The UK govts recent suggestion that we require open formats may begin to address one of those issues [1]. The move to more recent browser mediated applications might mitigate another. A new generation will have grown up with devices that probably don't run Windows [2] and that might reduce the training issues associated with UI changes.
Can I turn the question round: how many decades do we think that the default systems for large enterprises and governments will be provided by Microsoft?
And if a country as huge as India with a developed IT workforce of the kind India has decides to start a migration programme, the resulting pool of skilled people and working software (GPL Licensed software) would make future migrations that much easier. I personally wish the UK had a Munich or two simply so we can develop the skills here.
[1] http://opensource.com/government/14/2/uk-government-open-sta...
[2] http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2014/03/21/microsoft_sorgen...