Did anyone else watch the linked video of the RC helicopter? It was amazing! I had no idea that those things were so powerful. The only ones I've ever seen are the ones at the mall.
an 18 year old in the NYC area actually was decapitated by one of those hobbytist copters about 2 months ago. Yes, [one of the reports says] Decapitated.
They're already incredibly dangerous. That trick helicopter just needs one uncontrolled bounce and hit a person and someone will have very very unpleasant day.
Quadricopters seem much easier to make safe afaict.
Well, in his case he was an experienced acrobatic RC heli pilot flying in a sanctioned location. Freak accidents happen and when it involves a large scale RC heli, things can go bad very fast. Heck, even medium-large quadrotors can rend flesh quite easily and the small ones can do enough damage to make you respect them afterwards. I have a micro sized quad I fly in my yard because I'm not comfortable flying the larger ones anywhere near people.
EDIT: Also, according to witnesses, the top of his head was 'gone', so while not decapitated I guess, it was basically the same (if not worse).
If we assume symmetric forces, we could assume that the defending force knows of the technology and has developed countermeasures. Yes, an R/C copter flying like this would be difficult(-ish) [1] for a human to shoot down, but for an automated defense system, it would be trivial. They are fragile, and they simply don't move that fast compared to many other weapons. A conventional mortar operated by a well trained crew is more difficult to defend against.
If you're talking about asymmetric forces, then it's a different ballgame, but I'm still not convinced that there aren't innovative defenses. I saw a game show (of sorts) some time ago where engineers competed to develop a solution to a problem given a very limited set of resources. Some of the ideas the contestants came up with blew my mind.
1: And I still don't think it would be all that hard for someone who is talented with a shotgun.
> Its hard for an unalerted human to defend against a fast-moving strike drone flock. Against a civilian - no hope.
So what? It's hard for an unalerted human to defend against a fastpitch baseball to the head too. Because something is deadly doesn't make it practical.
My point is that this is a nonsensical threat (suicide drones) that will not be developed because there are so many effective, and much cheaper methods of neutralizing targets.
I'm not saying weaponized drones aren't a future threat. I'm saying that C4-strapped, wildly-aerobatic weaponized drones are Hollywood threats, not real world threats. The dumb alternatives (bullets, mortars, etc) are too effective and too inexpensive, and the weapons that are high-tech will use more sophisticated attack vectors (like what we're already seeing).
Other techniques are human-attended. Remote drones are very appealing as we've seen for most of a decade now. Anybody can afford them; its anonymous; it comes from above so is hard to anticipate.
Interested in other attack vectors..what did you mean by that?
> Other techniques are human-attended. Remote drones are very appealing as we've seen for most of a decade now. Anybody can afford them; its anonymous; it comes from above so is hard to anticipate.
How is a drone swarm not human-attended in a way that is distinct from existing drone weapon systems? More specifically, what advantages does a drone swarm have over existing drone weapon systems?
I still think you're missing the reason why this is a non-starter. It's not that they're ineffective (although I'd argue that they are of limited effectiveness), it's that there are too many better alternatives.
> Anybody can afford them; its anonymous; it comes from above so is hard to anticipate.
Russian 50mm mortars are inexpensive and readily available on the arms market. You can drag it through mud, drop it, and shoot it with small arms, and it will still work.
It's anonymous, because the high trajectory allows you to fire from an enclosed position, then simply walk away when you're done; remember they're cheap and available.
When you fire a mortar, it travels a long distance and comes from above, so it's hard to anticipate.
Guerilla forces love mortars. They use them all the time. They get the job done.
The SciFi-fantasty drone swarm is far too cumbersome and expensive for guerrilla forces, and it's too much of a blunt instrument for 1st-world powers.
First-world powers don't need kamikaze drones, because they can field larger, more sophisticated drones that are mounted with more advanced sensors and traditional munitions. They can fire on many targets in succession with terribly effective weaponry like a 20mm cannon. They can fire from altitude where you don't even see them. They can fly in-theater, autonomously until the time that they're needed. They can return to base, be reloaded with cheap ammunition, then return to the theater of operation.
There are some very limited scenarios where the weapon system you're proposing makes sense, but it's a tiny niche. There are too many simpler, effective options to acheive the same result. The only thing this concept has going for it is the cool factor, which doesn't count for much.
Ok you can be deliberately dense if you like. Its pretty apparent to me that a maneuverable drone that can navigate urban environments, hover, identify a target then decide to act is quite different from the blunt-instrument mortars and million-dollar airplane drones we use now.
Science-fiction? You just watched the video, and you dismiss it somehow as fantasy?
For instance, for assassination, intimidation, even spying (look in a 30th-floor window, relay audio and video) a rotored drone has no equal.
It'll be amusing to see the expression on your face the first time a quad-rotor drone peers in your window. "Hey! That can't be! It's impractical in the scenarios I've imagined!"
You just expressed several views with which I have no disagreement. Your original statement was:
> However, that helicopter seems ideal for antipersonnel rapid assault. Add an ounce of C4 and how could you defend against it?
I asked some pretty pointed questions about that hypothetical, and you haven't offered any rebuttal. I've also tried to explore their utility from the viewpoint of a guerrilla soldiers and a nation state.
Yes, I believe that small drones will be utilized. Yes, I believe they will be weaponized. Yes, I believe we really should do something about it! I just don't think the small ones will be weaponized in the way you're suggesting (strap on an ounce of C4 and send them in swarms). That's all.
Also, the one in the video doing the tricks is probably optimized to be very lightweight. I guess adding any kind of useful armor would slow it down considerably.
What is your basis for disagreement here? OP pointed to something which literally uses the word "decapitation" what leads you to believe that it's an erroneous use?
Because the article quotes someone who has a misunderstanding of the word "decapitation":
> “I was playing at the park and we came into the clearing and we just saw a body on the floor,” said Maria Delgado, 13. “He was just decapitated — the whole top of his head was gone,”
This is the only quote from those two news articles that contains "decapitation", and indeed the only instance of the word:
> “I was playing at the park and we came into the clearing and we just saw a body on the floor,” said Maria Delgado, 13. “He was just decapitated — the whole top of his head was gone,”
There were pictures on /r/morbidreality (better don't go there) which are said to be from this incident. It was no decapitation but a severe head trauma.
Searching those two pages yielded one instance of "decapitation":
> “I was playing at the park and we came into the clearing and we just saw a body on the floor,” said Maria Delgado, 13. “He was just decapitated — the whole top of his head was gone,”
So I think it's safe to say that a witness report from a 13-year-old who misuses the word "decapitation" doesn't make for a good source.
I dunno, the payload capacity of these things is shocking until you get to Trex 600 size or above, even at that point it's only "ok", definitely not "good".
At that point (& cost) there are cheaper, more effective (what a cold term) and just down right more terrifying ways, to induce terror.
The small UAVs are destined mainly for aerial photography; they are awesome at that, no question.
Ya, if my mission was to weaponize one of these (full disclosure: I've done sw for military UAVs and theater of war information sharing) I'd have it hover/dart above the theater to generate intel and coordinates for conventional weapons.
Is it possible to scale one of those up to Predator-size? Would the limiting factor be that the power requirements wouldn't scale linearly? Are there properties of the atmosphere that model-scale aircraft can take advantage of that larger-scale ones cannot?
Yes. It would be called a helicopter. Full sized ones can have fuel engines, which can carry more energy per weight and can go further. On the other hand, they are heavier and not as durable because of that weight. They cannot change directions like this mid flight.
Mass increases with the cube of scale, while structural material cross-section area increases only with the square of scale. So insects can have miniscule legs, while elephants have tree trunks, proportionally.
Think about it. Ants can carry six times their weight, while larger creatures could never accomplish that. I don't know the physics behind it, but it's not hard to see that small things can have greater strength per mass than large things.
I should say, a weapons equipped version. I can imagine these things being both agile enough to perform in urban environments and fast enough to perform in rural, open environments.
Imagine a dozen of these swarming an objective in Afghanistan, expiring their batteries over the course of a 30 minute attack, disappearing, and just when the combatants thought it was safe, another dozen show up because there is a drone acting as a recharging hive for dozens of these things and it's is doing slow circles around the objective.
That's sci-fi sounding and yet seemingly plausible.
Oh sure, I don't mean to validate the dehumanizing language of the military, it's just how I wrote it. At least I didn't refer to these things as being instruments of kinetic operations.
Not that the machines care much about that, though.
Wow, I didn't know about that. That's ridiculous. I remember watching this comedy bit from Chris Rock about the end of the 'innocent bystander', and I never thought it would actually happen one day.
Of course there is, why else.Obama would explode the 67 year old grandma with a direct hit while she was at.home with her grandchildren while enjoying her flower garden? ( and yes, this actually happened )
Agreed. I was impressed by the RC pilot's skill, and noted the craft's behavior was, at times, very insect-like. Or hummingbird.
... and I couldn't help but think, if a life-size helicopter were even capable of such maneuvers, its human occupants would likely die from the G forces.
Clearly such maneuvers seem only possible in an unmanned craft.
A cursory glance around the internet suggests that these things are capable of 20G manoeuvres (!), far in excess of the human maximum of 5-10G (depending on axis of acceleration).
It varies hugely depending on the axis of acceleration, so given the manoeuvres in the video I opted for the lower end of the spectrum, which is probably a more realistic estimate than 20Gs.
The mall is more "consumer friendly" ;) The video is from someone who lives RC.
I've only seen one live demo of a "pro" RC pilot doing his thing and saying it was awe-inspiring is a massive understatement. These are folks that eat, drink and breath RC and the amount of time and enthusiasm spent is really astonishing. If anyone can find a way around the laws of physics, it's those in the RC community.
