Congratulations! This is something I've always thought would be cool too. 5 acres is a good size, large enough that you can feel "away" when you are in the middle of it, but not so big that you can actually get lost.
Some suggested next steps. Get a good aerial survey done, with pictures. This will help in planning, in disputes, and later in figuring out what it looked like before that thing that just happened, happened. Also hire a geologist to do a survey (if they haven't already) and identify all the water flow. You may want to build a cistern to collect fresh water when it rains/snows.
An acquaintance of mine who has a place in the seattle/vancouver area also build a small gauge rail line from the dock to the center of the island where accomodations were. Mostly he's a train nut and that scratched that itch but its great for bringing stuff in before storm season sets in.
+1 on the local visitation. People will drive over there and walk around. In the US you need to put signs posting it as private property if you want to have a hope of charging people with trespass. If you set up a fire pit and a place for your friends to sit around an chat, that it exists will get out and you'll have other people "borrow" it when you aren't there.
Definitely a lot of fun though. I am very jealous :-)
Random tips from my own private island experience…
People may visit when you are not there. In the US, the shoreline up to some strangely defined highwater mark (which is higher than you expect) is public. Canada has a similar deal related to crown lands (you may own the island, but the bit under the water, not so much). These visitors have every legal right to hang out, have a picnic, play jarts, whatever.
When you aren't around you will get more visitors. (I have pretty good camera surveillance, mainly to enjoy from afar, but I also get to see the visitors.) These will be bolder and walk around and look at the place.
If you aren't around and the local environment is right, you may get hunters. We get duck hunters and goose hunters. We generally give a few people we know permission and kind of rely on them to discourage anyone else. Hunters are territorial. One year it was posted with "No Hunting" signs nailed to the dock, but not by us or anyone we know, a good attempt by a hunting hacker to secure himself a private hunting area.
Have a medical evac plan. I've used mine in weather that I would probably not have used an Amazon boat.
Have a "pinned down by weather" plan with respect to food and water. I know a couple that was reduced to surviving on popcorn and bloody mary mix for a couple days. Also, know when you are pinned down by weather.
A food digesting composter keeps your trash bags from getting disgusting.
If there is cell coverage, but only for odd carriers, consider an "island phone" that just stays there. If there is no cell coverage, get a VHF that can reach some emergency agency.
Maybe you could install a remotely/motion activated speaker system that plays the smoke monster noise from Lost to scare away visitors (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-M8P14u_G8)
Thanks-- this is all very good relevant advice. Hadn't thought about digesting composter at all, but that's a great idea.
I don't mind too much if people respectfully visit the island when we're not there. We told the really awesome neighbor he could visit the island whenever, so maybe he'll guard it a bit. He could certainly see from his dock if another boat was on it.
Just be careful with hunting. My wife and I have an island as well, and a couple weekends ago one of our dogs was shot by a hunter not playing by the rules. Unfortunately people will try to take advantage, and people are often less responsible on your land than they would be on their own. Also, letting people onto your land can lead to fires, garbage, and liability issues. Of course, it is always good to share what you have, just be careful.
As long as it is 75 feet back from the "ordinary high water line" and complies with 126 pages of local zoning rules and several hundred pages of proprietary building codes included by reference.
Yes, this is what I though too. He just bought property rights. It's still part of whatever country it's located within and they can apply all of their legal code on you. I imaging digging deeper than a few feet would be illegal on that without proper authorization first. Having a really sovereign country is kind of difficult.
If someone who read this get his very own country someday, please name it something that will give you the .gz ccTLD so I can finally buy www.tar.gz where I will offer visitors to download an archive of the Internet :-p.
> Having a really sovereign country is kind of difficult.
No it isn't. All you need is a nuclear missile and you can tell anybody, including US President to piss off. And they will do it. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korea for details.
It is your property, but it's not your sovereign country. You still need to obey the law of the country your property is part of, and that severely restricts what you can do with it.
It is not your property. If it were your property you could build whatever you wanted so long as you don't bring harm to others. The word you're looking for is not property owner but "tenant."
Property is a concept, different people can have different conceptions. I'll take your word for it that your conception is a delusion. You can't speak for everyone else though.
Yes, next summer we'll have a drone to survey everything. This trip was just to inspect before purchasing and explore a little bit.
The mainland neighbor we met was pretty confident no one would ever go to the island without permission. He's lived there his whole life, works as a fisherman in the bay, and has never seen anyone else on it. Even so-- we'll put up signs and not mind too much if people use our fire pit when we're not there.
I like the idea of the water flow survey... would be awesome if we could get fresh water without desalinating.
I've spent a fair bit of time kicking around Maine islands over the years, which are a lot more likely to have random visitors. One really weird phenomenon is that locked cabins tend to have more vandalism problems than unlocked cabins with a guestbook for visitors. I've never quite figured out what this says about human nature.
Maine's liability laws are excellent. They basically say, "So you hurt yourself? And you were wandering around the woods? What part of 'woods' didn't you understand?" So the social conventions in rural Maine provide a certain freedom to wander around unoccupied woodland as long as you don't make a nuisance of yourself. Posting your woodland against trespassing was historically considered a bit anti-social in a lot of places.
Nova Scotia appears to have relatively sane rules for liability in wilderness areas: http://nslegislature.ca/legc/statutes/occupier.htm I'd guess that your island probably falls under some combination of 6.1(c) or (d), but it's probably worth asking an actual lawyer.
Have fun with your island! And pay attention to the SAR folks—living on an island is only slightly more dangerous than living anywhere else, but when bad stuff happens, your options may be worse. My childhood best friend once had to make an hour lobster-boat ride with a stick jammed into his throat just below the jaw bone. This experience put an end to his family's island living. Your biggest risk is probably making that 5-minute boat ride in a bad storm.
> One really weird phenomenon is that locked cabins tend to have more vandalism problems than unlocked cabins with a guestbook for visitors.
An old joke is this: If you have something you want to get rid of, put it by the curb with a "FREE" sign on it. If it is still there the next day, put a "For Sale" sign on it and someone will "steal" it that night.
Stick a gone hunting sign on the door every time you leave, and get some gun paraphenalia (but not a gun) visible near the door. For extra points, time delay a loud pre-recorded bang and scream from a distant speaker when motion is detected near the door.
As soon as someone see there's no gun case, the charade is up.
My grandfather was an avid fisherman; he had a 15' line full of catfish "skulls" hanging from a telephone pole. Catfish can grow to 100 lbs. and their "skulls" look like shark or snake heads from a distance.
Macabre trophies do the trick, paraphernalia alone seems an obvious attempt to appear tough.
Posting private property is a good idea, not only because of telling people off but because you could be liable for claims if you don't and someone you did not invite gets injured. (crazy, I know, but that's the law in some places).
Sadly the US is a bit different. If a guest injures themself, they can sue you and win. If a tresspasser injures themself while you're not there, they can sue you and win.
Heck, we even have reports of theives injuring themself and then turning around, suing the owner in court, and winning.
Yes, he's serious. On an Island where I lived (which was connected with a bridge to the mainland) a couple of teenagers in their car got lost dressed for a party in -20 celsius weather. They stumbled onto someone's lot, then got out of the car and walked around searching for help. (200 sq km island, lots of unmarked roads and nasty woodlands). By the time they were found one of them had frostbite and lost a couple of toes. They sued the owner of the land and the municipality because no 'no trespassing' signs were posted and won.
This makes me want to chop down the other toes; and no, I'm not ashamed to admit it.
'Douchebaggery' should become a felony in my opinion. What a bunch of crybabies. They'd sue if there were a "No trespassing" sign and they hit their head on it.
They'd drown in the dead sea. I'm out. I don't like people in the bodies of grown men, and the physical and mental abilities and survival skills of a new-born.
Not island related, but there has been at least one case of this that I know about in the UK: someone broke into a warehouse and was injured when a stack of stuff fell on him. I'm not sure if the claim would have held water in court but the company didn't want to take the risk and settled with him for an undisclosed sum. IIRC they were also fined for the health and safety violation that was the mis-stacked stock (as the same accident could have happened to an employee instead and an inspection found other such problems).
Warning signs disavowing the owner of a site of responsibility for other people's actions (in a public place or while trespassing) often have little to do with the actual rule of law though (except where the signs are mandated by regulation) - more often than not they are simply about reducing the chance of someone trying it on. You might win easily in court if it goes that far, but if you can save the time and other hassle of needing to go that far by putting people off trying it is likely to be cost effective to do so.
It's the same in France. If you have a swimming pool in your garden for instance, and you don't put a legal size fence around it, and someone gets hurt because he slipped or drown in the swimming pool is your responsibility.
It's the same for wifi. If you don't protect your network with a password, you are legally responsible for what happen on it even if it's someone in the street squatting your wifi.
You have to understand the underlying principles - you don't sue poor people, the ones who don't have anything, you sue the rich, the ones who have (and if their property is substantial, say - an island, the better). That is what makes sense and that is what became legal, justice be damned!
I'm not saying we aren't a litigious country but recreational non profits and others are working hard to ensure that it is safe for land owners to allow to/across their land.
I know someone who owns a farm and a thief fell in a dirt-hole injuring himself while trying to steal some veggies. The thief ended up suing the owner for a lot of money.
Just for people new to who Tynan is, he's a pretty far out guy. Some things I recall (sorry haven't kept up over the years)
1) Ran a successful professional online poker playing business, actually hired employees and trained them to predictably win.
2) Was one of the main characters in the book The Game (yes, that PUA one).
3) Did polyphasic sleep experiments in earnest (was it a couple months or so?).
4) Had a giant inflatable outdoor pool inside his house, taking up his entire livingroom.
5) Sold all his belongings, including said house, and travelled the world for a year with almost nothing... probably in 2k8 or so before such an idea became more commonplace.
There's probably some much cooler stuff I'm forgetting, but hey it makes perfect sense he'd be part of an island buying crew.
Not common place before 2008? A lot of anti materialism propaganda started way before that: AdBusters, Culture Jam and lots of other films that were even main stream.
Travelling the world for a year (which requires not having a lot of possessions) is not necessarily part of the same trend (frankly, of garbage) that you cite.
>Although I'm happy to be saving money, my _primary reasons_ for living in an RV are that it _forces me to be minimalist and focus on what matters_, and it's a lot of fun. I've modified nearly every aspect of the interior of my RV (...) Some of the changes include:
> Maple and marble floors
> Brazilian granite countertops
>Japanese-style tea room in the back complete with rush-reed tatami
mats and mulberry shoji screened rear window.
>Golden tin ceiling
>Gold-leafed 10 foot curved section of the wall
>Home theater system with LED projector, 50" screen, and 12" subwoofer.
>Handmade zebrawood desk
>Controllable low-wattage LED lighting system with over 1000 bulbs
Consider it this way, in an RV has a small amount of room so there is a limit to the cool stuff he can put in it. So he has to CHOOSE what stuff to keep.
I men lets not forget about the giant inflatable pool in the living room incident. you simply can NOT do that in an RV
I use Dvorak, I believe it helped with my hand and wrist RSI issues, but I have no more than anecdotal evidence. I also type faster, which is verifiable, but it might just be due to ~7 years extra practice.
He did it for a higher calling -- namely having a penguin as a pet. Maybe if you make that your justification too your wife will jump on board, so to speak.
Way back in the early days of Internet, there were pictures of some fellows who moved all the furniture out of their dorm room, got a sheet of heavy-duty waterproof plastic big enough to cover the floor and three feet up the walls, and ran a hose from the bathroom...
> Sold all his belongings, including said house, and travelled the world for a year with almost nothing... probably in 2k8 or so before such an idea became more commonplace.
Has this really become more commonplace since 2008? People have always done this. Even before 2008. Maybe blogging about it is a fairly recent thing, though.
Ages ago, I also had this idea, including posting about it online. But it turns out I'm a dreamer rather than a do-er. Or maybe I'm just too addicted to comfort.
> 5) Sold all his belongings, including said house, and travelled the world for a year with almost nothing... probably in 2k8 or so before such an idea became more commonplace.
I believe the practice starts with resistors, and because of differences in use of . and , and the fact they are hard to tell apart, the units are placed in stead of the .
ie 1,500 ohm -> 1k5 ohm
Lots of widowmakers there judging by the pictures, better be careful. One thing you learn quickly when you live remote is that the nearest hospital is very far away both in space and in time and stuff that is routine in a city can get serious (or even kill you) when you're living remote.
Still, congratulations, I can really relate to how you guys feel.
I was rather confused since I know more about finance than logging.
In finance, "Widowmaker" means one thing: Shorting Japanese Government Bonds (JGB) and inevitably losing money.
Because of Japan’s gigantic national debt, and because the Japanese bond rally has gone on so long, investors have called the top in the Japanese bond market for years, only to get impaled.
A widowmaker, in the medical sense, is a highly stenotic left main coronary artery. In other words, a heart attack by clogging the arteries that feed the heart blood (not the main pump supply).
Widowmaker was also the name used for the hammer drills used in the Australian goldfields. The dust from the drilled rock got into the miners lungs and killed them prematurely.
We're actually pretty close to a hospital. Five minutes to shore by boat and maybe 20 minutes to a hospital. Didn't see any scary spiders, but will keep an eye out next time I'm up there!
Widowmaker, not widow spider. See, what you don't know could kill you ;) Spend some time in an unmaintained bit of forest and you'll get to know plenty of these things.
Five minutes to shore when the weather is good and your engine starts. Really, please heed my advice and make sure each and every one of you knows how to do basic first aid, I hope you're never going to be in a position to use it but when you do you'll be happy you took the time and trouble. First purchase: a very good first aid kit.
This is all not to piss on your parade but because I lived in a pretty remote area for 2 years and have a little bit of experience that might be relevant to your situation.
Thanks for the heads up! We'll def be sure to get on that and get some basic first aid training across the board + med kit on site. Any other advice/tips we should be aware of?
Basic engine repair skills, something to patch up your boat in case you spring a leak, a basic comms kit+genny so you can call up the coast guard or a passing boat if you should need them (assuming your island is out of cell phone reach), cache of freshwater, fuel, waterproofed matches and a couple of days worth of tin cans in case you ever get cut off. Halifax coast in winter can be, how to phrase this, impressive, to say the least.
Mind you, the real kick is when you are isolated but there is an additional degree of risk there. No need to get your appendix out as a precaution just yet ;)
All of this is assuming you're on the salty side of things, if you're in a lake it's a lot more relaxed but you will still need to take basic precautions and you'll need to be extremely careful with what you do with your wastes (you'd need to be just as careful in the ocean with that for ethical reasons but there will be fewer watching eyes so you can drop the 'extremely').
As a SAR guy, I can say the big big thing is the first aid (plus CPR). It sounds like you're relatively close to civilization, but realize that if someone has to come to help you, they're likely not going to be there within the Golden Hour (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_hour_%28medicine%29). That, and just being prepared in general (ten essentials: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Essentials and knowing how to use them), having skills, and being wary. I've seen even well-seasoned people end up in bad situations; the best way to survive seems to be to avoid the bad situations. Also, never go alone.
Reading all the advice that is being given in comments around this thread, it would seem the best advice would be: get someone who knows what they're talking about in the local area and get their advice; like the parent poster SAR but that also knows about dangers closer to home.
Maybe you could make a weekend of it for your families or something.
My SAR group actually teaches a class where one of our stated upfront goals is to prevent people from having to be rescued. Depending on the area, the local SAR group might be too busy putting out fires to do similar (it takes a lot of planning and prep).
I would very strongly advise AGAINST emulating Bear Grylls' antics in 'Man vs Wild'. He often does things that are the complete and total opposite of what you should do. One example that stuck in my mind was when he (supposedly) needed to cross a mountain and decided, instead, to go through the mountain via a cave, which is possibly the most stupid idea I've ever heard. He arguably puts young people at risk by encouraging such dangerous behaviour. Lofty Wiseman (author of the SAS Survival Guide) has described him as an "idiot".
And gear. Setting up a supply of basic medical stuff isn't that expensive if you do it right and it could be very handy. A few key drugs, a few laminated sets of instructions on how to give them and you'll potentially be much better off. Allergic reactions etc can be ugly.
The st. Lawrence river might just as well be ocean for the purpose of driving along the shore road in winter, in the middle of a snowstorm like that it really makes you wonder what the hell you were thinking of driving there in winter.
I went there to visit a huge VAT ('eggbeater' or Darrieus rotor windmill), I should have kept a better eye out for the weather reports rather than to keep on driving, and I only caught the tail end of it. Live & learn...
Calling -20@100 km/h winds 'a bit rough' should qualify for the understatement of the decade if there is such a thing. I've been out in weather like that and it cured me of a desire to see snow and ice for a very long time. I've seen it be below -40 on St. Josephs Island a couple of nights every year and that was definitely quite strange. As long as the wind wasn't up it was doable, even the slightest breeze and you'd be crazy to go out (or you'd have to feed the stove...).
That's what I was thinking, about the paddles. Five minutes by motorboat in clear weather ought to be at least manageable even if the motor's out and the weather's terrible, so long as you've got paddles.
We're actually pretty close to the shore on one side, in cell phone coverage, and have the phone number of our closest neighbor. There's definitely danger there, and we're big on safety, but it's not as remote as it probably seems.
I think “widowmakers” doesn't refer to spiders, but things to watch out for, like falling trees, slippery ledges, sharp rocks, and so on.
They're one of the “five Ws”—a mnemonic list of things you need (or need to keep away from) to survive in the wilderness: water, weather, wigglies (which would include spiders), widowmakers, and wood.
On the lake, and surrounding lakes where we own a cabin, there are hundreds of lakes on private islands, some of which are a considerable distance by boat. This has been going on for the better part of the last century, and people don't seem to be having issues in general.
I would put "clearing a space or even making a concrete pad for a helicopter to land" and "checking cell phone coverage, if any" high on the list of first things to do.
I believe he already said there was cell coverage. As someone who can only dream about owning a private island, how big would a helipad have to be? And how much concrete would it take to make that sort of thing?
"* How large of a landing area is required for the helipad and where should it be located?
The size of the helicopter’s primary approach area, departure area, landing area, and the obstructions must be taken into consideration before determining the location. The AirLIFE helicopter must have a landing area of 100’ x 100’. The takeoff and approach areas should also be 100’ x 100’ and clear of all obstructions.
* What should the size of the helipad surface be, and how much weight should it support?
The ideal size of the helipad surface should be 50’ x 50’, but can be as small as 40’ x 40’. The landing surface should be able to support the helicopter at it’s maximum gross weight of 9,300 lbs."
It's an LLC. We have bylaws to deal with people wanting out, but we intentionally make it very difficult (island llc gets 1st right of refusal, every member gets a right of refusal after that, and we must approve of any buyer). The idea is that it's an investment in utility, not in dollars. One bad person on the island could ruin everyone's experience, so we guard against that.
We're going to be building next year, so we still have lots of research to do. It appears that anything permanent like a cabin would require a permit, but that yurts / heavy duty tents / sheds / etc wouldn't.
A neighbor on the mainland has offered us dock space and gave us a couple rides this trip. We also bought an Intex Excursion 5 off Amazon which was serviceable but really difficult to navigate in wind. We'll buy a real boat next year.
HN is throttling my posts, so it may take a while to answer everything. I appreciate all the comments and questions.
I've seen those-- would prefer something with windows, and it would need to be able to withstand some pretty serious weather (maybe those can... haven't researched).
Thinking probably a 30' yurt for the communal building, and smaller geodesic domes for individual dwellings.
I talked to them once and it sounded like they can ship the materials in a fairly compact way. I helped put up a fairly large one - not so hard, but we needed scaffolding.
Quote: "Over the years we'll build up the island, doing most of the work ourselves. We'll build a communal building with a shower, kitchen, lounge, and bathrooms. Each owner of the island gets to pick a spot on which to build their own little structure to sleep in. Together we'll build infrastructure, gardens, a fire pit, and whatever else we can come up with."
So, not counting significant others, ten people sharing a five-acre island. That's 1/2 acre per person except that not all five acres will be flat, buildable land, and you will have to sort out who lives where, without friction.
This works when you're young, before you start thinking about issues like privacy and personal space. By the time you and your friends are 30 years old, the island will likely be a distant and probably bitter memory.
I speak as someone who lived through the 1960s American back-to-the land, communal-living, private-property-is-a-crime phase.
He doesn't seem to be indicating anyone plans to live there permanently...it sounds like it is intended as a getaway, rather than a home. No mention of building gardens, major construction, or dealing with longterm freshwater, garbage and sewer, etc. In other words, he's building a private campground, not a commune.
For what it's worth, I live in SF and know of several communities of people over 30 - people who are well-educated and could definitely afford to live in their own space - who choose to live together in big warehouse conversions. I'm sure there's drama but they consider being around other like-minded people to be worthwhile.
In this case it's just shared vacation land which is even easier, and they'll each get their own plot. My family of 6 lived on a quarter acre in a suburb and that always felt like plenty of space.
I'm already over 30, as are many members of the group. I was extremely selective on who I invited, and they're all people I trust completely. There will be issues in the future, but we've come up with rules to deal with them.
Also, as noted below, none of us are planning on living there full time-- just visiting over the summer, hopefully all at the same time.
Haha, thanks. I had a great time communal living in school. Everyone involved in the island is trustworthy, fair, reasonable, etc., so I think it will be good. We also outlined ways to deal with disputes in advance.
You might want to draft a bylaw the codify the no one living there permanently part. Any plans to post your LLC operating agreement + bylaws publicly and/or in source control?
If you're not planning on living there permanently I don't see it as much of an issue. That said I'm used to living in cities where half an acre per person sounds like a huge amount of land.
What is it about islands that gives them their mystique? I don't think a post entitled, "My friends and I bought a five-acre plot of land near Halifax" would have garnered as much attention.
I would have never guessed that it would, either. I was pretty shocked to see it here when I loaded up HN on my phone.
When I was inviting friends to be a part of this, there was a big divide... half of them LOVED the idea and felt like an island was something special (as I do), and others just saw it as some difficult-to-access land. I've had a tough time articulating exactly why an island seems special to me.
While I'd love owning some land, owning an island is definitely in a different league. I doubt I'll ever own one (because it is impractical), but it's definitely something to dream about.
I think part of it is the fact that this 5-acre land plot has a giant moat encircling it. When the zombie apocalypse hits, they'll be glad they spent the cash, though.
Also most human cultures either grew from river or coastland - the availability of fish and other resources that a large body of water provides is very comforting to us descendants of those peoples at a very basic level, I imagine.
I am curious about how and whether building or environment impact codes come into play with this kind of remote private island in Canada. Things like septic systems, building a dock or anything near the shoreline, and even putting in a mooring buoy can be significant challenges to get approved in many US jurisdictions.
In lakes the rules are extremely strict, for an island in the ocean the rules are much more permissive. No matter what the rules you typically want to keep your impact as low as possible or your island feeling will soon be replaced by something more akin to living in a small polluted town.
Legally all your island really is is a bit of land surrounded by shoreline and that shoreline is the interesting bit. It may automatically be public access or not depending on where you are, you may be accidentally part of some incorporated town and there may be specific rules governing islands.
I would advice against issuing your own passports but if you happen to have an anti-aircraft gun and an old torpedo lying around you could even consider going sovereign.
And once you successfully pull that off you can do whatever you want with your island ;)
I have a friend who investigated the possibility of this, he owned a small island off the coast of another larger inhabited island. Although he wasn't far enough off the coast to be declared international (ie international waters) he did tell me that in Canada he could issue commemerative coins (although not his own currency) and stamps.
Everything depend son the municipality and province you live in. I can't speak for Halifax area, but on Lake of the Woods and surrounding unincorporated area, Ministry of Ontario is the governing body. Floating docks do not require a permit, but for the most part, you aren't allowed to modify the shoreline, except under direct permission from Ontario and/or the Department of Fisheries (Federal). You are allowed to build boat houses on land (with permits), or by driving pipe into the ground, as that minimizes damage to the shore.
The ministry will do periodic inspections of land, and will investigate complaints. The property we purchased had all vegetation removed from the shoreline to expose the natural sand beach. The owner was fined, and forced to lay down landscaping fabric and crushed granite to cover it in order to reduce erosion. The matter was strictly dealt with by Department of Fisheries.
As for septic, you're required to build a field, but permits are easily obtainable. Same goes with putting buildings; permits are (usually) required, but usually attainable relatively easily.
I'm curious about this, too. We've done a little research, and it seems like building non-permanent things like sheds and yurts will be fine, but docks, septic, permanent buildings that cost over $5k will need permits.
Then again, there are some pretty janky home-made docks in the bay that seem to have been there for a while.
If it is anything like in the US, old stuff is grandfathered when things tighten up. This is why it is often advisable to look for property that already has a dock or other permanent structures on or near the shoreline. It is quite likely that none of that janky stuff could be built today.
This is exactly how it works in most of Canada. The new laws are strict to an extreme measure, in some cases you are not even allowed to add a window to a wall that is facing water (reflection and glare issues) or cut down any fauna within 60 feet of the waters edge. Docks usually have a permit but are limited to a specific size, and you cannot alter the general structure of grandfathered objects.
I think you mean flora... and even then I'm guessing it only applies to trees and large shrubs. I'm Canadian and all the anti-cutting laws I've heard about only restrict you from removing plants over a certain size. So you can remove saplings and small shrubs, but if you wait for them to get big it'll be too late.
Those docks might not be permanent structures, which probably removes any permit requirements. You might want to go this route too if you all won't be visiting much or at all during the winter months. Remove your dock to 'winterize' your island.
Hey all - co-owner here with Tynan. He tried to reply to all your comments but you guys left so many he got throttled by HN and now can't post. Shame on you all.
Just kidding - but really, he's throttled atm. He'll be back to reply to posts when he can!
We didn't transfer the money until seeing it. As the commenter below said, it hit our metrics, so we figured that barring an infestation of wild tigers or something, it was worth buying. So we went up, camped for a night to check it out, and wired the money the next morning.
How do you intend to prevent locals from "visiting" your island when you are away? Once someone realizes there's an awesome free island with lots of cool stuff to play with you might find it prone to vandalizing.
I've had similar romantic notions about owning an island (we kayak a lot). But the reality is that every vacant island IS your island. There's plenty of islands < 1 hour away that are beautiful and completely uninhabited. Hopefully someday I will come upon yours... sounds nice.
<pessimism>I hope it works out for you but taxes go up, structures get vandalized, local permits are annoying and 10 hours is a long friggen drive. And the fastest way to end a friendship is to joint own something.</pessimism>
Unfortunately, the first structure in a remote location is often the first structure the local pyro has an opportunity to torch with no consequences. After losing a camper trailer (not on an island, but in a remote location) to this phenomenon, we've investigated more durable/securable structures but have been reluctant to invest in anything more permanent than tents.
One of these: http://www.junglehammock.com/ and a nice Kayak is your key to staying on any coastline or island. If there's nobody there... then nobody will mind. Ownership = headache.
Holy crap I hope those are nice. The cheapest hammock they offer costs several times the most expensive tent I've ever purchased. When I kayak camp I generally just bring a tarp and a self-inflating pad.
You can get the generally most popular camping hammock, an eno, with straps and a tarp for $70 + $20 + $80 (eno website).
You can get my favorite, the appalachian hammock with a slot for insulation during winter, with a tarp for $99 + $150 [2].
You need a sleeping bag to put in the hammock too too, but most people have those.
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The prices are ridiculous. Look up Hennessy Hammocks for something more reasonable and be prepared to insulate a lot from the bottom, especially in moist climates.
Looks cool. I've always thought sleeping in a Hammock would be nice, but as a stomach sleeper I wonder if it would really be possible. Are things flat and taught enough that you can stomach sleep on them?
(I sleep in hammocks pretty often)
If you set it up taut and lie diagonlly (eg head on left, feet on right, stomach on middle), you will be pretty flat.
Even if one doesn't mind people passing through (and if it's somewhere out in the wilderness I think that's the right attitude), if private improvements are ever seen as open to public use when their owner is not around, it's a matter of time before problems arise.
Over the years we'll build up the island, doing most of the work ourselves. We'll build a communal building with a shower, kitchen, lounge, and bathrooms. Each owner of the island gets to pick a spot on which to build their own little structure to sleep in. Together we'll build infrastructure, gardens, a fire pit, and whatever else we can come up with.
A couple years ago I bought some rural land with the idea that something like this. . . something I think of as "ecosteading" is going to become a trend of sorts. The idea that I'm working on (and have already applied to YC and a bunch of other incubators with) is actually right along this line: a platform for people to buy and sell land, exchange ideas for ecological homesteading, even build out a platform for more intelligent urban planning. When it's done from the "ground up" (literally), there are all kind of future headaches that can be avoided.
Imagine if the Hyperloop or the California high speed rail had been able to be laid down before most of the development around this insanely populated state took place. Population growth is exponential; it's inevitable that we're going to need smarter ways of transporting people and consumables. The key is figuring out where these new hubs of population are going. Like-minded people congregate; and this idea gives them a way to do it with others.
If this sounds like something interesting/exciting, I am kinda sorta looking for people to work with. Research it, tell me what you can offer (it's Rails!) and what you think of what's done so far: https://angel.co/ecosteader (email only please)
No question... just want to say that this is really cool. I recently took a Seaplane from Vancouver BC to Victoria BC and shocked by how many beautiful tiny islands there were out there and wondered what it would be like to try to get one. Now I know.
Are you just planning to camp or do you plan to setup a small cabin? Can you dig a well there? Will you allow guests to visit? A tiny produce garden? Helipad?
Hah Tynan got throttled by HN for posting too many comments too quickly. I'm also a co-owner of the island:
1. Yeah, we definitely have plans for structures -- yurts, we're actually thinking.
2. Hmm, haven't explored that option. Not sure.
3. Yep - tentatively 5 guests per each owner at a time.
4. Yeah food would definitely be fantastic.
5. We don't have helicopters yet unfortunately, but when we're mad rich sure :)
> Sweetwater well on a saltwater island this size is a rare thing.
Not at all. It's not uncommon to have a fresh water table beneath the surface of an area dotted with islands. If you doubt this, ask yourself where the tree's roots go, and how those salt-intolerant trees survive.
I live 100 feet from salt water in Washington State and I have a perfectly reliable fresh-water well.
Living on the mainland near the sea is not the same as living on a very small island more than a few hundred meters off-shore.
See, the mainland has sweetwater running under it all the way to the sea shore and even a little bit beyond, depth and density will vary but it is always there. But a small island surrounded by ocean need not be like that, more than likely it is of a rocky composition (otherwise it would simply disappear or move around) and the water runs right off before it can pool in quantity enough that you could stick a well-head into it to reliably pump it to the surface for consumption.
In such a situation catching it as it falls is your best bet (also better because a small island likely does not have a good filtering capacity and the water you pump up, assuming you can get at it in a useful quantities, will need a lot of processing before you can use it).
It all depends on the actual situation but the chances are rather against it.
"On low, small islands that are largely composed of coral or other porous materials, salt water intrusion into the underlying interior is quite common. The drilling or digging of wells on these islands and especially on along the shoreline must be done with care [emphasis added]."
Notice that the author didn't say "pointless."
Most reasonably-sized islands have a subsurface fresh water source. The presence of salt-intolerant trees tells you there's fresh water available beneath the surface.
> ... assuming you can get at it in a useful quantities, will need a lot of processing before you can use it.
If that were true, it would kill the trees. I know a number of locations in Alaska near salt water where, because of geological changes resulting from the 1964 earthquake, even though the surface is dry there's no subsurface fresh water at all, and all the trees promptly died. Those locations are rare.
It's not nearly as simple as drilling a well far from salt water, but it can be done.
You may want to check with the DFO (Dept. of Fisheries and Oceans) on that. Licenses are sold for many types of shellfish and you want have fishers with licenses for crab, clam, oysters etc. near the island. http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/rec/species-especes/shell...
Recently one lobster fisherman (farther off shore) was caught cutting trap lines and the owner of the lines shot him a few times and then ran him over in his boat. Fishing is taken very seriously in this region, it's all some people have done for many generations.
Just in general in Nova Scotia you don't need any license for non-commercial fishing in tidal areas (still need to observe bag limits though.) You do need a license for any fishing in fresh waters.
If you're hand picking crabs you're fine. Just don't set any traps or snares, but you might want to check to see if they are safe to eat. Sometimes the close areas for shellfish harvesting due to food safety concerns.
The murder that dhughes is referencing had more to do with it then them just catching someone cutting their lines, there was a long history between the victim and the boat crew.
I always wanted to do something like this as long as I can remember, build something (more or less) self-sustaining in the middle of nowhere to feel fully independent.
I am really curious to what extent the author plans on living there? Will there be houses next to the communal building? Solar Panels? A Generator? An on-site well?
It is this Idea of your own small ecosystem which makes Minecraft so attractive. This is real life Minecraft and I hope to do something like this one day.
Edit: Just to add some interesting Project: There is open source hardware for everything you need to build your own village in the "Global Village Construction Set"[1]
At first it will be a summer-only thing, but we hope over 5-10 years to make it sustainable all year round. We want to use it mainly as a place to work together and get away from cities.
Next summer we will be putting up a 30' yurt, a huge battery bank, and a generator. Water is the hardest, so we'll probably have to catch rain and use a desalinator.
Oh-- we have awesome LTE and 4G coverage there, too!
Congrats on your purchase! Having 4G internet is a very nice addition to your infrastructure, and critical in this day and age. Even if you want to disconnect for extended periods of time, you still have to pay your bills and taxes.
Speaking from experience, solar panels and car batteries work very well to supply a minimal amount of power for daily use (LED lights, charging cell phones and laptops, etc), but a generator will likely be needed for the occasional heavy equipment use. I'm less of a fan of windmills, but they have their place.
Water is indeed the most important infrastructure element to get right, but the solution you go with often depends heavily with your power choices. It's one thing to leave a desalinization system running 24x7 and maintain it, but it's a whole different story if you need something that can be shut down and restarted several months later. Maintenance and long-term reliability become important factors. Maybe you'll get lucky and find you can drill a well for fresh water, but the size of your island makes me think that is unlikely.
Other fun things to think about: plumbing, septic systems, waste disposal, hot water systems, lights, cooking, and refrigeration.
Then there is always the debate of redundancy vs. simplicity. and the real cost of maintaining an often fragile infrastructure.
I am very curious to hear more about your progresses in building out your island infrastructure and have subscribed to your blog.
Thanks! I actually have an RV with solar and LED, so I'm very familiar with the awesomeness of running off the grid. I'm not sure we'll get enough solar to make it cost efficient, but we're still looking into it.
I haven't done enough research into desalination-- I had no idea that shutting it down for a while is a problem. Why is that?
We may also do rainwater recovery + filtration for drinking/cooking, and salt for showering. Worst case we have to bring water over every time and shower in salt.
Planning on doing propane or wood to heat water, propane for refrigeration and cooking.
Thanks for subscribing! We'll be going out in the spring to do some more work and will definitely keep people updated on progress.
My extended family owns a cabin on a tiny island on a lake in Wisconsin.
* You're right - having a house on an island is cooler than having a house on the shore. :)
* Probably not applicable to you, but when they need to move heavy things (Backhoe to dredge the dock, materials, etc.) to the island, they drive them in over the frozen lake in midwinter.
* The power comes in over an underwater cable. Something you might want to look into.
First of all, owning an island sounds awesome. Congrats on making the leap.
I don't know how much knowledge you have about desalinators, but here is a FAQ by the company that makes the reverse osmosis unit that I use at work: http://www.searecovery.com/marine/src_faqs.html Being so close to land, you will need a way to sterilize the water. A UV attachment should work.
I also recommend taking a course in Wilderness First Aid. I took a 70 Hour Wilderness First Responder course by Wilderness Medical Associates. It was an excellent course.
You could probably let a lot of kids (college students) have a lot of fun surveying it. I would seriously consider approaching a local college or university if you'd want.
Bonus is that you'll get some good maps out of it:)
I wonder if indeed it's completely out of any state's control or it's technically still in a state's jurisdiction. I wonder what would happen if someone bought an island and started hiring people and making money there and not paying any taxes. My guess is that government agents would suddenly become very interested in that piece of land and would pay a visit.
Be wary of the local property taxes. Any construction will count as increasing the value of the terrain, which the county will often assess over it's true value. Keep an eye on the yearly value increases and don't be afraid to contest the valuation, especially if you don't have running water, electricity, etc.
I think this answers the question of "but if you don't like the rules, you can always leave". In fact, you can't. Even if you can afford a piece of land like this, you're still a subject of taxation of some country.
It's also much easier to defend in a "without rule of law" (WROL) situation. You've raised the bar for just getting to your place. Short of scuba gear, there's no way to approach a prepared island undetected. This even goes for the dark of night if the defenders are well prepared. Would be invaders would probably also be approaching without cover against rifle fire, unless they are hiding behind the engine block of a fairly large sized boat.
There are some disadvantages that come with that. A determined group could keep you trapped on your island more easily as well.
That's true on any large or remote piece of land, though, not specific to islands. It's one reason people who live in middle-of-nowhere Wyoming like it there.
My question is not whether they can afford it or not, but whether they indeed would do it or not. If not, then you can consider this island a separate country, which is pretty cool. If, on the other hand, it's still Canada's jurisdiction, then it doesn't make any sense owning such an island.
It's controlled by Canada. There is no land on earth outside of the control of nation-states, except Antarctica, which is shared by major nations but has territorial claims by 7 nations.
I found elsewhere: "this is pretty much just 2,000 km2 of sand and rocks", and "consisting mainly of sand and rocks ... 2069 sq km (795 sq mil) and is shaped like a trapezoid."
, and checked it out on satellite. The nearest road appears to be 250km away. Definitely no chance of internet. But even this place I suppose could be made habitable with long term effort. Solar would be a good bet for power, and long distance radio or perhaps microwave or satellite would be viable for internet. Semi-subterranean dwellings could be ideal and even support crops, once constructed. But investment would be significant. I wonder if you could fly in/out hardware, junk and supplies via solar-powered drone?
It's still de facto Egyptian territory, although for the bizarre political reasons outlined in the Wikipedia article they just don't claim it as such. Flying in/out isn't going to work too well since it's fully surrounded by Egypt and Sudan.
From that page: Egypt still administers the territory. That was my point. You could build an underwater city in the middle of the pacific and some government would somehow claim it. If there is money there, a nation will be present to collect its cut and make sure you abide by their law.
A few years ago I was looking into this as well, but in the Philippines -- there were a ton of amazingly beautiful and affordable islands in the Palawan region... the problem was getting stuff/services onto the island.
Getting power, water, sewer made the cost extremely high. Even with Solar/Septic - getting equipment and suplpies was just far too much for me to undertake and afford.
So CONGRATS on succeeding. How much for an 11th person share in the Island?
Have you setup an "infrastructure" fund where all ten of you contribute a monthly amount - and then spend it annually on one big buy for the Island?
I'd recommend you see about purchasing used shipping containers and having them barged over to the island: this will let you store stuff - and if you're crafty enough, there are tons of examples of building housing from them online.
Start planting seeds of edible plants all over the island.
There were islands in Palawan fro sale at the time that were uttery perfect for ~$35,000 USD - large enough for a house, had a really nice beach etc...
The problem was that in the northern part of Palawan, you either need to ship from Manilla, or fly stuff in.
The islands were too small/rocky to be able to have a well, so water was an issue - as was power - you'd need to basically have solar/wind/generator (which meant boating in fuel regularly).
So - I don't have exact numbers - but it made buying an Island for ~35K really mean that you'd need ~$250K+ to really accomplish something.
Also, buying an island in a 3rd world country is an entirely different proposition from doing it in a place like Canada. For example, keeping your stuff safe becomes a major concern, especially if you're planning to only visit every now and then; you pretty much need to hire a permanent caretaker.
Also, in the Phils (and most all Asian countries) foreigners can't buy land directly, so you need to use various workarounds of dubious legality like setting up a corporation with a local citizen as director and an undated, presigned letter of resignation, etc.
And you're still screwed if somebody in power doesn't like what you're doing. There was a bizarre case a while back with some Finnish guys setting up camp on a remote Indonesian island (with go-ahead from the locals, mind you) that eventually ended up with the army showing up to kick them out with lots of chest-thumping about Indonesian sovereignty, but my Google-fu is failing me right now...
No, not any more than you get a residence visa if you buy a house or a farm. It's just a piece of property, and property ownership in a country doesn't typically confer immigration status. If you're American, you can visit Canada (but not work there) for up to 6 months a year visa-free. Otherwise you need to apply for a visa through the usual process.
As a Canadian I would not have bought an island unless it was near a major urban center and thus has the appeal of being urban and country at the same time, or somewhere warm ..aka not in Canada.
If you just want to rough it, you can lease Crown Land, fees are basically nothing if you're willing to do the paperwork, most leases last from 10-99 years, some of these leases might be open to foreigners (not sure, might need a legitimate business).
Even better start of an amatuer prospecting company, you could probably lease an island the size of manhattan, again for a very low fee. You won't own the land but 99 years is usually enough.
Or you could just drive really far into the bush, no one will notice.
My family has a summer house out in the Stockholm Archipelago, it's on one of the tens of thousands of islands, it takes an hour to get there from home, and on our island there are about 60 houses, and there's ok infrastructure including public transportation to get there.
If you want more solitude, you just take the boat and go out to the more remote ones, there's nothing special or magical or mystical about "owning an island" to me, since that's how I spent my childhood summers.
Then I realized that archipelagos are pretty rare, which keeps the concept out of reach for most people.
Does anyone have tips for buying cheap land in general for camping and maybe building a cabin? I've always been curious to do that but I've no idea where to start.
I was (much like the author) always interested in getting an island (still am.)
I also gravitate toward Canada when looking for an island, because you can get fairly large islands for much less money than lets say in the Caribbean. Of course, the climate is a lot less appealing.
I always wonder though, how expensive would it be to get something built on an island? I imagine getting building materials and construction equipment onto a forested island can be tricky and expensive.
I was struck by the "climate does not matter" part - I have always assumed Canada will be one of the 22nd century's big winners in climate change terms (lots of nice melted permafrost agricultural land and an extra 6 degrees would be balmy)
the upshot of this is I assumed land north of Toronto is always going to be a good buy for grand children. am I thinking too small?
Canada may be a big winner from climate change but it won't be because of permafrost. Melted permafrost is essentially swamp land, development is generally much easier when it is in the frozen state. Oil companies go so far as to install passive cooling radiators on oil pipelines to keep the ground they are built on frozen.
I should have mentioned this in the original post-- we actually have HSPA+ and LTE coverage! Super lucky, as this is the only utility that we couldn't easily do ourselves.
I wonder if a small heard of goats/sheep could be self sustaining out there and help with clearing some of the vegetation?
Out here in fire country, people with large acreage will rent sheep from farmers to come and eat the brush over a month or so. I saw some at Sears Point once and I have to say the critters did a better job than a large mowing machine.
My family has a cottage in the backwaters of Ontario (although ~one hour from Ottawa). It's on a lake, but very off the grid, without electricity or running water. We have propane stoves, refrigerators, lights, etc.
It's a bit less remote than an island, seeing as you can take a car into town, and the stray hunter still comes through once in a while.
Thank you! I was hoping to build a treehouse, but a hurricane wiped out most of the big trees in 2003. Now it's all 6-20' tall Balsam Firs, which are too small to make treehouses in. Maybe in 20 years...
Tynan you may not be aware of this but there is actually a word for this. You are an "islomaniac".
Highly recommend this book which is a true story about what Id consider to be the ultimate islomaniac:-
Is there any site or organisations that are around for the purpose of buying these kind of things? Kind of kickstarter but more larger payments for a percentage of a large purchase? I suppose kind of like a timeshare, but not a rip off?
I've come across 1 thing like this myself, which is a car club, you pay £10k and you get X days per year to drive the cars in their selection but you also own something like 5% of the company that owns the cars. I'd be very interested in other kind of group buying things like this.
Step 1. Buy Island
Step 2. Build treehouse
Step 3. Swiss Family Robinson
Step 4. Thwart Pirates
Step 5. Become a host on AirBnB. "Lovely Family Getaway"
Yes you can, you still have to have a powerful enough military to defend your claim. In fact, given a large and powerful enough military you don't have to buy the land before claiming it.
You'll unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your point of view) find that military strength costs vastly more than land. Even a billion dollars buys you a ton of land most anywhere, but it buys you vanishingly little security if sophisticated entities want to take it from you.
That's awesome! I have a feeling that you are going to get some neighbors pretty quickly as we all start looking now.
For the love of Mother Nature, please hook up with a landscape architect so that you make sustainable decisions about where to site buildings, where to cut trails, etc. It doesn't take much vegetation loss to start some nasty erosion.
I hope so. If anyone buys an island in Nova Scotia, get in touch!
We're leaving all trees around the edge to prevent erosion, and are clearing very minimally. Will definitely be getting some expert advice before making big decisions, though.
Perfect scenario for the "tiny house" (Google it) concept. Decent sized land, but rocky & woody makes it hard to build anything of substantial size, and multiple owners/occupants suggests multiple smaller dwellings to fit without getting in each others' way.
It's an LLC. We have a lawyer as a member of the group, so he drafted our purchase and sale agreement and our operating agreement. We had to hire a local lawyer, too, to draft an affidavit and to register the deed.
I'm the lawyer that Tynan mentioned, and the proud part-owner of the island. There are excellent standard form agreements available for free online. Essentially you just search for the relevant jurisdiction (i.e. the State where you're incorporating)and "standard form multiple member LLC operating agreement". Then you edit the agreement to fit your circumstances, deleting and adding as required. Standard form purchase and sale agreements are also easy to find and don't require much amendment. Pay a local title search company to check the title (ensures that there are no outstanding mortgages/covenants on it, that the seller actually owns it etc. You'll need to get a local lawyer to execute the deed, but that doesn't cost much. It helps to have a legal background, but an agreement is just a shared understanding of the meaning of words, so not too difficult.
You are living out a dream/fantasy held by many of us and obtained by few. Please do keep us informed on the awesomeness that is to come on Tynan's Island.
Also, definitely look into the permaculture thing. The Zombies Are Coming! and you gotta be prepared. =)
I'm curious now what it takes to become a sovereign nation, and issue your own passports, which will be recognized by other countries. Does anyone have any experience/knowledge with that? :)
Thank you! Some of my ancestry is from there, but it's the first time I've visited. I was really struck by how friendly everyone is, and how beautiful the area is. Halifax was a cool city, too.
The gulf islands in BC are beautiful and much nicer in terms of climate. The San Juan islands are the southern tip of the gulf islands. Similar prices.
I have some experience in this area. If ten people rely on firewood for heat, and if they live there in the winter, and if the island is heavily forested, the trees will last maybe five years before any further cutting will start eating into property value and privacy.
I'm actually really into learning about forest management. I've been reading a lot about it, and it's fascinating stuff. Based on our usage, it seems that we should be fine, especially since few people will be coming in winter. My bigger concern right now is bringing back birch trees! We have some dead ones, but very few live ones. The whole island is balsamic fir right now, so it smells like Christmas trees.
Not really. Did as much research as I could, and most of the value of the island to me is having a group of friends with an island to build up by our own designs.
Also, we did check it out before wiring the money. If it was burnt down or something really bad, we wouldn't have bought it.
Poverty is often very expensive and often involves the cheapest upfront cost but frequently leads to high lifetime costs. So I think your argument is ridiculous. Energy independence is often more about mindset and lifestyle choices than budget. I hsbe never been in a position to pursue it, but I never viewed that as being about dollar cost per se.
I hope to some day have it visitable in the winter, but not expecting it to be ready for that any time soon. The idea is to start with a cool private camp site, and eventually build it into a year-round sustainable retreat.
It sounds like you guys really thought this through (with the LLC, etc), however I can't shake the feeling that you're going to find this a bit like owning a boat: it sounds like much more fun before you actually do it.
Five acres is slightly more land than I have (in the exurbs of Toronto), and is almost certainly much more awkward, with less usable space. I mention that because I can't imagine trying to facilitate the desires of 10 different owners on such a plot, and the practical limitations of such a space will become quickly apparent. Notions of being sovereign and all of that seem really strange -- you fall under just as many regulations (if not, in some ways, more) than a plot on the mainland. Assuming that you will fly under the radar is a dangerous gambit.
To visit this place you rely upon the graces of what is to you a foreign country. A simple DUI or possession charge in the US == barred from Canada. And so on.
Totally get the thought (I have bid on various large parcels of land throughout Ontario), though, just think 5 acres is just much too small.
In much of the rural midwest, 5 acres is the _minimum_ plot to build a house on. One single-family house. Five acres was how far we could play as children without going "far". It's 3.78 American football fields.
That said, it's five more acres of island than I own.
5 acres in si units is 20,000 square meters. A typical house in nl is on 200 square meters if it is a house in a row and on maybe twice that much or a bit more if it is freestanding.
This always blows my mind. Our last house was 85 square metres and our current is 95. With a small child we need a little more, but any more than 120 is just too big. Too much crap accumulates, too much cleaning, too much maintenance (I could prep and paint the whole interior of our house in 2-3 coats in a week after work in pretty sure). Property taxes cost more with bigger houses and things get complex fast. For example, all water in and water out happens over about 7m of one side of the house. Leaks, supply etc are so much easier to deal with. I can get above and below any problem fairly easily as it's single level. When the child goes feral at night, it sure would be nice to have 10 doors between us, but no house could stop that noise. Medium/small house believer.
Those were the lot sizes, houses in the US/Canada are typically a little larger than those in Europe. Property taxes in the US/Canada are a small fraction of those in Europe.
I can't see the appeal of this at all. Random list of why:
Inevitable fights/headaches when one person wants out -- yes, you planned for it, but it's still a hassle.
All the pains of homeownership (leaky roofs, pipes, HVAC problems, etc.) x 1000 due to difficulty of getting a construction crew to the island.
Lack of a police force to enforce basic property rights against squatters/hunters/other "intruders" with different ideas about the meaning of "private propety" than you
Water: is this all being brought to the island, or do you have a plan for on-island desalination? Are you prepared to regularly service the desalination plant and/or haul giant jugs of water to the island constantly?
Medical care: when someone breaks a leg, steps on a sharp stick, etc., where is the nearest hospital?
This article reminds me why we live in a market economy, because tastes and preferences differ, and there's no way I'd buy this, but great if you guys want to.
> Medical care: when someone breaks a leg, steps on a sharp stick, etc., where is the nearest hospital?
Well the nearest hospital to YHZ is about a 30min drive. The island is an hour from the airport, so at most 1h 30m drive, plus a boat ride. Not really any worse then if you decided to go outback camping at the provinces national park.
> Lack of a police force to enforce basic property rights against squatters/hunters/other "intruders" with different ideas about the meaning of "private propety" than you
"Hello, RCMP..", it's not exactly Somalia here. Honestly though I doubt you'd have any trouble, other then the occasional canoer poking around.
Lack of infrastructure definitely is a turn off, not insurmountable though, there are plenty of people doing these kinds of things on islands around here.
Doesn't sound like he or she considers it "fun". Different tastes I guess. To me, all the "problems" mentioned are the whole reason I'd love to undertake something like this.
> Lack of a police force to enforce basic property rights against squatters/hunters/other "intruders" with different ideas about the meaning of "private propety" than you
I think you overestimate how many patrolling police there are per unit land area in most places. Sure, if you're in a city you can call the police if you're at home and someone's trying to break in, but it's not likely that a random patrolling police officer is going to see and stop a trespasser.
I live on 4.1 acres. I can't imagine splitting it 10 ways in a manner that would allow for free space on an island with rugged terrain. It's big but not get away from 10 people you may or may not like big.
Do you see this ending in Lord of the Flies? I just can't imagine 10 friends all growing together with the land at the same pace. Some will have kids. Other want to be more rowdy. Or less. It sounds awesome though, I hope they make it work.
just blog about this - a lot! Congrats on building your dream! I hope it works out great. 10 different people with ten visions have to come together... wow. Could be real fun or...
Probably because it's none of your business. Seriously, what could you get from a firm figure that you couldn't get from the generalisation of between 10 - 100k?
Why not just answer the question? Why all the secrecy surrounding cost when one could easily find out how much something costs? If somebody asks, it's because they are curious of the value. 10-100k is a huge range that most islands would fit into.
I hate to be the Debbie Downer but this seems like something that feels really cool and fun at first but then loses it's novelty after a while and then gets forgotten about.
The complaint was that it might only turn out to be adventurous and exciting for a little while. My point is merely that you can always get out again and spend the same money on something new and adventurous and exciting.
With the Global Warming upon the Human Race, it will be stupid to buy the Islands which might not last forever... All the Islands that are available look like they might submerge within another 5 years.. paying those exuberant rates for islands is stupidity..
Look for Islands with a Hillview, that might work out..
> With the Global Warming upon the Human Race, it will be stupid to buy the Islands which might not last forever. All the Islands that are available look like they might submerge within another 5 years.
Not five years. Sea level rise at present is about 3 millimeters per year. Over five years that becomes 15 millimeters, or 1.5 centimeters, or about 1/2 inch.
"From 1950 to 2009, measurements show an average annual rise in sea level of 1.7 ± 0.3 mm per year, with satellite data showing a rise of 3.3 ± 0.4 mm per year from 1993 to 2009 ..."
This is not to diminish the seriousness of global warming, only to put it in perspective.
Some suggested next steps. Get a good aerial survey done, with pictures. This will help in planning, in disputes, and later in figuring out what it looked like before that thing that just happened, happened. Also hire a geologist to do a survey (if they haven't already) and identify all the water flow. You may want to build a cistern to collect fresh water when it rains/snows.
An acquaintance of mine who has a place in the seattle/vancouver area also build a small gauge rail line from the dock to the center of the island where accomodations were. Mostly he's a train nut and that scratched that itch but its great for bringing stuff in before storm season sets in.
+1 on the local visitation. People will drive over there and walk around. In the US you need to put signs posting it as private property if you want to have a hope of charging people with trespass. If you set up a fire pit and a place for your friends to sit around an chat, that it exists will get out and you'll have other people "borrow" it when you aren't there.
Definitely a lot of fun though. I am very jealous :-)