I've been playing with Coder for the last few days .. and the thing I like most about it is that the majority of the knowledge imparted is done through the comments .. I think this not only teaches kids good programming practice, but it also gives them the perfect distraction-free environment to be involved with what they're doing - just like commerical developers.
Also, it should be noted that the whole Coder package can be run on any Unix-ish machine (Linux/OSX/BSD) with ease; it doesn't require a rPi in order to get value out of it.
One conclusion I've made after 48 hours with Coder, is that developing for the Web sure is a lot more convoluted than it should be, alas. On the other hand, if I can fork Coder for my own needs (I'd like to use it to build a blog app) it'll be a lot less complicated.
I've considered learning web coding for quite some time now, but every time I try to learn I get frustrated that I need to learn at least three languages (HTML, JS, CSS) in order to get anything but a simple static web page. Meanwhile I could pick up a desktop-oriented language and get everything done with one code base.
I'm personally not finding that to be the case - or, if there is a more 'critical mass' in the desktop/server language, at least its a single language to deal with.
Its the context-switching that bothers me most about the web technologies that have evolved over the years (and I've been watching, as an Internet user for over 30+ years, this evolution quite closely) .. going from HTML5 -> CSS -> Javascript results in too much cognitive dissonance for this old salty developers eyes. Plus there are just too many platform issues to deal with - not just per-OS, but per-browser.
Whereas I'm perfectly happy building real desktop apps (which can incidentally be deployed to the web) in languages such as Lua, I really can't be bothered with the alphabet-soup of CSS, the peculiarities of HTML5 .. although I do find Javascript to be aesthetically pleasing at times (must be my C background). I hope to one day just do away with the web layer entirely and focus only on the app level, and there are fortunately enough tools like that out there to get along with in that regard.
Still, Coder is a fresh way to address the problem, and I definitely appreciate the effort made by its developers to make things a lot more approachable to younger, less crusty minds.
The early 2000s were a simpler time. Visual Basic was still perfectly viable as an enterprise programming language for CRUD applications, you had one simple language to learn, and could build an interface by clicking your mouse.
I don't miss VB, but I seriously wonder why the community was so quick to move on without ever actually replacing it.
Contrawise, isn't it kind of great that GitHub is doing such a good job AND Google teams are not forced to use tools just because they are from Google?
Great, but to be honest this all feels almost cynical at this point coming from Google, headline might as well read:
> NSA unleashes Coder for Raspberry Pi as kid-friendly tool
Don't get me wrong, I have a Raspberry Pi and think it has great educational potential, I think it is great that Google is doing this, but I have lost all trust in them that anything they do they actually give a shit about anymore, this just feels like a crappy PR move.
Don't get me wrong, I hate the NSA spying as much as the next person on HN and I think it's great that people are upset, but this might as well read:
>Google has no choice but to comply with the NSA, continues operating despite their pending lawsuit against the federal government.
Not everything Google does has to be framed within the confines of the NSA debate. I'm struggling to understand how the NSA has anything to do with teaching kids how to code on a Raspberry Pi through a Google project, or even why the NSA would care.
Yes, I guess my comment was about how ridiculous it is that this was my feeling and reaction, that the situation we are in makes me jump to such conclusions. I have a lot of faith that the ground level sys admins and engineers at Google are actually good people who probably are as angry about all this as I am, they do not design their systems with agendas or back-doors, only the few are compelled to. Unfortunately the well has been poisoned and all trust is now gone, I can only view the actions of the company Google with cynicism and skepticism.
You are most definitely not alone in your reaction. I am still bemused that Google's owners were, and remain, too scared to speak out publicly about what is going on, even after the revelations which have been made. Not just Google, however. All the major tech firms appear to be on the hook.
+1. I think a lot of people just want this thing to "go away", be happy and remember the great stuff the US does, just admire the philanthropic endeavours this multi-billion dollar company is doing, all in the name of education and access to bash. I am not surprised by the downvotes on my comment. The US Gov has burnt all their bridges, the world trusted them as a thought leader on anti-censorship, pro-freedom. At this point I feel the rest of the world needs to cut the cable (literally) and leave the US alone, you want to monitor every fucking email, go ahead, we route around you. You stood up and gave yourself the role of steward of the internet (I know Al Gore invented it), and you did a great job un until the NSA fucked it all up. Mission accomplished?
Sorry to be so cynical, but seriously you need to make your Gov. accountable for the insane fuck-up they have perpetuated here, I would go so far as to say the NSA is now a terrorist organisation and needs to be stamped out.
Edit: just to make it clear, I admire the USA and love the core values of your country. I am British, and my country is way worse than yours in many ways (Mr Douche Cameron introducing filtering for example because "think of the children"). You have been bestowed stewardship of the internet (you invented it after all, Darpa etc) but have done a terrible job in recent years. This is due to the terrible FISC/FISA rubber stamping allowing those who would always seek more power to get it. Your bad example of stewardship however only gives countries like China and Iran more excuses to enforce their disgusting filters and firewalls. You can still do something about this by telling 'them' it is not OK. Oh, and never allow them to take away your guns, that is a good thing to have.
First look up the Guardian's coverage of GCHQ. Stones, glass houses, etc.
It still has nothing to do with wanting the subject to "go away", it's that your post is completely irrelevant to an open source programming environment for the Raspberry Pi. That's why I downvoted your comment. It adds absolutely nothing to a conversation on the subject at hand, and is generic enough that a decent bot could generate your top-level comment on any subject with Google in the submission title. Seriously, you're like one step away from those blog comments that try to stay on topic while "subtly" working in a link to their discount counterfeit purses or whatever. Mindless knee-jerkery is not something I want to see encouraged, so I'm happy to help downvote it to oblivion.
Well, go and look at the Wikipedia entry for PRISM and follow the leads to the UK coverage, anything to do with GCHQ is gag ordered. Nobody is talking about this fact, yet we should all do a kumbayah around the fire because Google have released a FOSS product "for the children". This stinks of PR. As I say, I have faith that those on the ground at Google have nothing but good intentions and want to change the world for the better, but we now live in a world where you cannot trust them. This is exactly the same as if Nestle released an open source solution for breast feeding, nothing but a PR repair strategy. I hate to be the one saying this by the way, because I have for years loved Google and put almost everything in their cloud solution.
Edit: Oh and I have exactly zero to gain from trolling Google, I am not promoting Skydrive or Spideroak because they are both equally dubious, why does my reaction to a company deeply tied into the recent revelations about all out data being processed by the US gov have to be considered non-relevant?
Edit edit: I believe I am contributing to this story because my comment is about the company involved in creating it and the relationship of trust they have (in the sphere of computer geeks and Hacker News this is particularly poignant). If you believe things should only be 100% related to the article, to never deviate and discuss things such as the the company, fair enough to downvote me.
By the way read this specifically the DA-Notice, UK has been gag ordered so the Guardian is nothing but a distraction at this point as they are complying with the notice. Sure, they have revealed some interesting stuff but they cannot also be completely trusted as they are compromised.
Also, it should be noted that the whole Coder package can be run on any Unix-ish machine (Linux/OSX/BSD) with ease; it doesn't require a rPi in order to get value out of it.
One conclusion I've made after 48 hours with Coder, is that developing for the Web sure is a lot more convoluted than it should be, alas. On the other hand, if I can fork Coder for my own needs (I'd like to use it to build a blog app) it'll be a lot less complicated.