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No more than taxing labor income (which the US does disproportionately)

If you have a point to make, please try doing it without blatantly lying. It's common knowledge that the US has substantially higher corporate tax rates than almost anywhere else:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/feb/21/corporat...




The headline U.S. corporate tax is higher than that of many other countries, but it also has many more loopholes than the corporate tax of many other countries. As a result, the effective corporate tax rate in the U.S. is relatively low, around 13%: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Effective_Corporate_Tax_Ra...

However I believe the parent's point was just that taxes on personal earned income represent a much larger share of total U.S. tax receipts than taxes on corporate income do, i.e. the U.S. mainly taxes labor income. And that is true; the corporate income tax accounts for only 10% of federal tax receipts: http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=3822


> If you have a point to make, please try doing it without blatantly lying.

I'm not blatantly lying. US taxes on labor income are disproportionate to taxes on other income sources, both because of the favorable rates applied in the income tax system to capital income, and because labor income is subject to additional taxes.

> It's common knowledge that the US has substantially higher corporate tax rates than almost anywhere else

Whether that's true or not, its entirely irrelevant the claim I was making.


Seriously? What tax rate do you pay on your regular 40h a weke job? What tax rate do you pay on investments? Most people are taxed roughly 36% (28% income tax, 2% medicare, 6% social security) on their labor, however investments are only taxed at a flat 15%. Hence, the US disproportionately taxes labor over investments.

Do you have other evidence that shows that investment income is in-fact taxed higher than labor income in the US?


> (28% income tax, 2% medicare, 6% social security)

This year, the 28% tax bracket for a single individual stars at $87,850 taxable income. The Social Security cap is $113,700, and the Social Security tax is levied on all income below this. The individual standard deduction is $6100 and the personal exemption is $3900.

That means that for an individual, a 28% income tax rate means income is above $97,850 while paying Social security taxes means income is below $113,700. I sort of doubt this covers "most people".

For a couple, the 28% bracket starts at $146,400 taxable, the standard deduction is $12,200, and personal exemptions are $7,800. So in this case the rate you quote applies to income over $166,400 and below $227,400 if both members of the couple have equal salaries. Again, hardly "most people".

Finding good numbers on this is hard, but http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20101119053457AA... suggest that somewhere around 46% of taxpayers fall in the 10% or 15% brackets, and that's ignoring the effects of EITC and whatnot....

Of course the 15% bracket definitely has a marginal rate of 23% or so, again ignoring EITC and various other tax credits you can claim at those income levels that phase out with income, since they're certainly paying FICA at that point.

> investments are only taxed at a flat 15%

It really depends. Dividends are sometimes taxed at this rate and sometimes at your normal income rate, depending on whether they're qualified or not. Capital gains are, if you hold long enough. And capital gains can, of course, still affect your AMT exemption, meaning that if you're in the the AMT phaseout range your marginal rate on even long-term capital gains is about 22% (15% + 25%*28%, since the phaseout applies to normal income).

Of course once you make so much money that the AMT becomes irrelevant your marginal rate on capital gains drops back down to 15%.


> That means that for an individual, a 28% income tax rate means income is above $97,850

Actually, its a lot higher than that, because marginal rates aren't overall rates.


Sure, but I assumed oijaf888 was talking about marginal rates on income, which affect whether you want your marginal dollar to be salary or investment income. If we start talking about overall rates, there is no plausible way at all to claim that "most people" pay an overall Federal rate higher than 15%.


Really the FICA portion (medicare + social security) is nearly twice that, because your employer has to match it. You explicitly see the 2X if you're self-employed, but even otherwise that's money they're spending to employ you that could be going to you and is instead being taken as tax revenue.


Except capital gains taxes don't include inflation in the calculations.

So let's say your stocks in aggregate rose 4% that year, and the inflation was 3%. You made 1% profit (in purchasing power). You pay 4% * 0.15 = 0.6% which is 60% of your profits and only 38% of your income.


Corporate profits are taxed, and then they are taxed again when they redistribute the dividends. Arguably, you get double-taxed if you own stocks.


The same thing happens with payroll taxes though, it's not an uncommon practice to tax money as it continuously changes hands.

Your employer makes money and is taxed. Some of the resulting money is given to you as payroll and is taxed.


Paying employees is a business expense, so the money is not taxed as corporate profit. Paying dividends (outside of the context of a co-operative where you've pre-committed to paying certain dividends) is not considered a business expense and so the money is taxed as corporate profit before being distributed.


See my reply to pjungwir.


I don't think it's the same thing, because your salary is an expense to the company, so they don't pay taxes on that amount. (Some states/cities do tax corporate revenue as well as corporate profit, but not federal taxes.)


I'm not saying they are taxed on the amount of money they pay you. Well, there is Social Security (US) taxes that they pay but you could argue that's money that should go to the employee anyway if there was no such tax. I'm saying the company makes money that is taxed and then they pay you out of that money in which you are taxed for receiving.

Ok, granted, not all the money that the company has on hand that is paid into your salary is taxed as corporate income, but the idea is valid. I agree not at the same level as taxing profits and then taxing dividends which is essentially the same money.

I'm just going with the notion that it is not uncommon for money to be taxed as it is exchanged from one entity to another.


The root of this thread was someone saying,

"Most people are taxed roughly 36% (28% income tax, 2% medicare, 6% social security) on their labor, however investments are only taxed at a flat 15%."

"Double taxation" may not be an entirely accurate label (more like "an additional pass of taxation"), but the fact that dividends (in particular) are taxed as corporate profit before being taxed as individual profit makes that 15% figure misleading for dividends, which is what the child comment brought up: "Arguably, you get double-taxed if you own stocks."

Really, the number of times the money is taxed is irrelevant (except wrt paperwork) and we should be looking at the total tax level, but the point is that it's more than the nominal tax rate on qualified dividends if we're going to be comparing tax rate on labor income to tax rate on non-labor income, apples to apples.

Of course, that's specifically for dividends; bond premium payments and capital gains are a different discussion.


I cannot say I disagree with your explanation. I believe I may reconsider my viewpoint.


Various countries have dividend imputation for that:

> it reduces or eliminates the tax disadvantages of distributing dividends to shareholders by only requiring them to pay the difference between the corporate rate and their marginal rate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dividend_imputation




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