The point of my thought experiment is the op was saying that there are some thing we don't even have to think about like torture and the surveillance we are discussing. For the surveillance, it seems much more reasonable to believe it might actually help.
I disagree. Using evil tactics is a "code smell" if you will. Even thinking about using such tactics for one second is a red flag that something has gone wrong. Why would you need to spy on your own citizens? Because they're upset. Would it really be better to oppress them than figure out why they're upset and address it?
