So, naming the site "9GAG for Android" was asking for trouble. That's a clear-cut trademark issue, even if the app itself was named "Nine."
Content ownership is a little murkier, of course, because 9GAG is a company that thrives off stealing and rebranding the content of others. There's also no reason they couldn't have played ball - there's lots of alternative mobile clients for sites like Reddit and Hacker News because they create a healthier community and fill a niche that the creators of those sites can't fulfill. Still, if 9GAG decided they wanted the ad revenue this app would deprive them of, I can't really fault them.
(though, to be clear, I still totally fault them for being a shitty company that steals content!)
I can't deny the website domain is asking for trouble. Truthfully, I wouldn't mind taking it down, it's just a marketing stunt anyway because back then, they haven't have an official Android app.
What irks me is that they refuse to work together _at all_, and worst, their Android app is not up to standard.
But well, now that it has come to this, I will pivot to another service which has a healthier devs and community.
I'm not a fan on 9gag, but I can understand why they wouldn't want to work with you. There are many issues with just having some random guy - despite how good natured he is - in charge of your company's official app.
They're asking ruqqq to stop infringing on their trademark and copyright, not necessarily stop development.
The trademark issue is likely resolvable by removing the "9GAG for Android" tagline and any other implied or expressed official connection to 9GAG that might appear in the app, website, or other marketing materials.
What they're referring to with regards to the copyright violation is a little more complex: are they referring to the user-supplied content? Did ruqqq use 9GAG creative in the app? Something else? If it's anything other than the user-supplied content, which 9GAG doesn't have a copyright on anyway, that should be relatively straightforward to resolve, as well.
But GP is referring to ruqqq's implied offer to make Nine the official 9GAG app (at least in some capacity), not that ruqqq actually is, at this moment, in charge.
The email clearly states "using our trademark and CONTENT". That's what the email is for. Furthermore, their TOS is worded to be confusing (at least it is to me): http://9gag.com/tos
Anyhow, I'm not going to make this into im-a-bitter-dev commotion. Some here even state that it's not the users I'm worried about because if I am, then I can just direct them to the official app.
My real concern is that my app existed before 9GAG's, and although 90% of my users are using it free, there are some who appreciate the work I put into making a nice-to-use app and bought the "Pro" version. These are the people I would NOT want to disappoint. I'm still weighing solutions and brainstorming on how to make their dollar spent worth it. But for now, I've removed 9GAG references in the Play Store listings.
Their TOS does not claim ownership over user-supplied content; see section 2, "All materials displayed or performed on the Site[...](other than Content posted by Subscriber (“Subscriber Content”)) are the property of 9GAG, Inc[...]" and section 3, "Subscriber shall own all Subscriber Content that Subscriber contributes to the Site[...]".
The letter does claim that you are using their content, but the use of which infringes on their trademark and copyright. Your use of the user-submitted content would not infringe on their copyright: users were never asked to assign copyright to 9GAG, and in most cases, would not be able to as they were not the original copyright holders to begin with.
If there was a fundamental copyright problem (i.e., the entire basis of your app is copyright infringement due to an ownership claim on all the user-supplied content) and they wanted to shut your app down, they could've just issued a run-of-the-mill DMCA takedown notice to Google. That they didn't seems, to me, that they are fine with your app as long as you remove the infringing elements.
If you were interested in keeping Nine around without fear of 9GAG taking additional action, I'd ask them what content, exactly, infringes on their copyright and have them enumerate what you need to remove. It may be something relatively straightforward, like certain assets or logos that you may be using in your app.
Yes, I agree if ruqqq brands it as just-another-funny-app then perhaps there won't be any copyright violations, since 9GAG steals content from other sites, stealing content from them won't amount to any copyright violation. In my opinion unless 9GAG specifically says that the user-supplied content belongs to them, then it doesn't, but the terms here say something on those lines: http://9gag.com/tos
Their TOS makes it pretty clear that the user-supplied content doesn't belong to them, under section 3 "Subscriber Content":
> Subscriber shall own all Subscriber Content that Subscriber contributes to the Site, but hereby grants and agrees to grant 9GAG, Inc a non-exclusive, worldwide, royalty-free, transferable right and license (with the right to sublicense), to use, copy, cache, publish, display, distribute, modify, create derivative works and store such Subscriber Content and to allow others to do so (“Content License”) in order to provide the Services.
And under section 2 "Site Content", they claim ownership of everything except user-generated content (emphasis here is mine):
> All materials displayed or performed on the Site, including, but not limited to text, graphics, logos, tools, photographs, images, illustrations, software or source code, audio and video, animations and Themes (as defined below), including without limitation the 9GAG, Inc Template Code (as defined below) (collectively, “Content”) (other than Content posted by Subscriber (“Subscriber Content”)) are the property of 9GAG, Inc and/or third parties and are protected by Hong Kong and international copyright laws.
Even if they did try claim ownership, one can't transfer a copyright they don't hold, which is the case for most of 9GAG's user-supplied content.
You did work together, or more accurately, you did all the work for them. You took the risk of making an app that users like, 9gag saw that the risky work had been done (and that people would use it) and now knows that they don't need you any more.
That said, I am impressed by a person who can get thousands of people to install his/her app. Now that you know how to get people, you can traverse the trademark line more safely in the future.
Given the utterly charmless nature of the response, I do hope that you can find a way to continue to support your users and hopefully annoy 9gag without exposing yourself to any risk.
(I don't have a dog in this race, but I like your tone and don't care for theirs at all!)
I had never even heard of 9Gag before until now. It definitely looks like this decade's iteration of eBaum's World, except instead of "borrowing" Flash games from their original creators, it's skimming images from Reddit.
Borrowing is a such a weak word for stamping their obnoxious logo on unoriginal pics. Its somewhat saddening to me how popular they have become due to their sleaze. (Seriously: Why create anything new when you can rise to popularity on the works of others?)
That was exactly what I thought. While not constructive, my first urge (if I were in the position to respond) would've been a screencap of the email with a 9gag logo stamped on the corner.
Don't read too seriously into that, as most users of 4chan are loathe to use reddit (and strongly consider reddit to do the same thing that 9gag does).
9Gag quite often is virtually stealing images from all over the world. But technically they have an upper hand. I think you should just create your own project similar to theirs and direct your users to it, changing the name and complying with their request.
Yes, i'm a registered patent/trademark attorney, so i'm familiar with the law :)
I'm just surprised, usually they don't go issuing letters until they have something substantial registered.
The name? NINE is too generic to have an association to "9GAG".
What else do you use? You named the site "9GAG for Android", which was risky. Change that, and then ask them - in writing - to inform you which other legal issues they see with your app.
Again, they don't own the content. They could prevent you from scraping their content, and/or revoke your API license, and/or claim that your scraping was in conflict with their TOS, but again, ask them what the issue is.
Nah. You crossed a line. You leveraged their brand to build your app's user base and then you essentially say "Let's make a deal." And act appalled when they have a bad taste in their mouth? That's a dick move.
Like the letter said if you're truly just worried for your users redirect them to 9gag's app, but the problem is that's not your real concern apparently.
Seems like they are saying "Take down your app or we will complain to Google and have them take it down". If this is the case, what is the harm in leaving it in the Play Store and forcing them to jump through hoops?
If they do get it taken out of the Play Store, you could always provide the .apk for people to download.
I have no idea how the Play Store works, but I imagine having claims against you would bode poorly in future disputes. If it's not something you mean to contest, why bother?
These apps actually are annoying. The name should indicate they're not official. All of these apps harvest some user data and (whether deserved or not) I trust it to the name brand more than a random developer.
Anyhow it seems like they had a reasonable exchange. I loved how after the threatening legal letter the co-founder's email has a link to his funny collection!
Edit: but I do appreciate the developer filling a need that wasn't met. I think I probably have this app installed actually. Anyhow, it's never fun to sift through multiple, similar looking apps.
I did like how you were trying to handle the situation, it was really reasonable to try work something out.
I am sad about their response to you, make me loss faith and proves that once they were successful, they just stopped caring.
I would suggest you trying sending an other email with same approach to someone else higher up in company. From what i get Ray is guy in legal department, we don't know if he cares about user base and if he forwarded the email to someone else before he decided to deny you a way out.
As a dev, I feel really really sympathetic towards your situation. However, it's the reality of the business. I've written things that leverage certain APIs and ended up getting replaced by "the official version." Yes, our apps bring traffic to their site, but it's also a two way street. By leveraging APIs, we are taking advantage of their users and infrastructures. So yeah, it sucks that it ended, but at least it was fun (hopefully profitable) while it lasted. Move on bro!
Even though you might not live in the US, I think you should change the name and visuals to avoid any possible shitstorm in your way.
If there is really a market for you, maybe you should disassociate now from 9GAG and create your own product and serve users with your own concept. Find a way to deliver relevant content to your users, and maybe in 2 years you'll be bigger than 9GAG :)
What are you even saying? I doubt the developer himself has a market(Hell, the only time I can think of when someone says "Oh, i'm buying it because of so and so." it's either John Carmack or Will Wright.), and if he abandons the app the market you're referring to disappears. Why would it be assumed that the maker of an application that piggybacks itself off of a non-owned mother site would find a way to deliver content to his users? Be realistic. The guy makes an app that parses out a website. Now for the "I'm no lawyer.." . Change the site URL and defend the app. You filled a niche, apparently still do, and 'Nine' is ambiguous as hell.
I'd say you should keep the app up and change some of the names. You did them a huge favor by creating an app and they give you some contrived robotic response? Fuck them. They thrive on stolen content anyhow, it's not like they have much of a leg to stand on.
Content ownership is a little murkier, of course, because 9GAG is a company that thrives off stealing and rebranding the content of others. There's also no reason they couldn't have played ball - there's lots of alternative mobile clients for sites like Reddit and Hacker News because they create a healthier community and fill a niche that the creators of those sites can't fulfill. Still, if 9GAG decided they wanted the ad revenue this app would deprive them of, I can't really fault them.
(though, to be clear, I still totally fault them for being a shitty company that steals content!)