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Stripe launches beta in the UK (techcrunch.com)
254 points by whyleyc on March 1, 2013 | hide | past | favorite | 104 comments



Does anyone know why the link has changed from TNW (http://thenextweb.com/uk/2013/03/01/stripe-uk-europe-launch/) to TechCrunch?

It's not really important, just curious if this is some kind of mod preference for TC? :)


Good question - I was the original submitter and didn't change it, so must have been one of the mod's. I preferred TNW's version as there is more context in it.

Also TNW had the story first - Mike Butcher was late on stage after Patrick's announcement because he was furiously writing up the story for TC :)


The plot thickens....

It seems to make more sense to post the TC article and let them "battle it out" with votes. With no justification what's been done here certainly does seem odd and, frankly, smacks of some kind of ulterior motive...


... That TC pays YC for promoting articles? Wouldn't be surprising given the ycombinator-centric posts. But it's also possible that mods think readers give more credence to TC.


I already thought editing titles was uncalled for, so seeing them edit links seems way over the line. Without any explanation, we can only guess at what the reasoning behind such edits are.

However, if mods are going to continue such aggressive edits, it would be really nice if they had to write a quick reason/summary of the edit, or at least show what changed. Since I doubt that will happen, I wish PG would at least add an "edited" label to stories that have been changed.

As things stand now, I no longer know which stories are actually community-approved and which have been silently placed there by the powers that be.

EDIT: Interesting that this thread is suddenly at the bottom of the page...


HN exists to serve PG and YC's goals. Plain and simple. And for all we know there may be a pay-to-play relationship between YC and TC.


Which is fine, but then that should be disclosed, not because they have to, but out of good faith. Most of the tech community, myself included, has high regards for PG and YC. If secret pay-to-play relationships exist, they erode that trust.

To be clear, I don't think that there are pay-to-play relationships between YC and TC, at least not any that would lead them to actively edit HN submissions to be from TC. However, a secret group of mods are leaving a bad taste in my mouth. I hope PG will take this opportunity to clear up exactly what the mods' roles are, and what permissions/oversight they have.


This thread has, without doubt, been pinned to the bottom ( it was sitting at the top a couple of hours ago and has received as many votes since then).

Editing the title is one thing (which I largely condone), editing a URL is another thing entirely and then to blatantly attempt to hide the discussion is boardering on outrageous! The HN "mod community" has gone well down in my estimations.


I thought for a long time that TC was paying YC for flow (always suspicious that of all the articles on a given topic, it's always the TC ones that make it to the top of the front page), and the actions of this story convinced me that there is truth to the claim.


Could be because TNW is a rag. Half their article is just plugging more of their own articles about a different company.


And TC is better? All these blogs do is repeat press releases/each other and link to more of their own articles. Mods shouldn't be deciding which tech blog is best especially when there was nothing wrong with the information in TNW.


I agree completely about the quality of these sites. I'm not saying TC (and definitely not AOL) are better. They are just better this time.

Shitty journalism should not be rewarded, so I find it hard to sympathize against the mods decision.


Changing titles is one thing but changing the URL to a different site seems a step too far.


Have been waiting a long time for this :)

When announcing it onstage Patrick said anyone interested in participating in the beta should email him:

  patrick [at] stripe [dot] com
I hope he's ready for the email deluge !


Is it coming to France soon? (Apparently there's at least one job opening in Paris so there's hope!) Let's ask him! ;-)

Not really related, but here's a picture I took of Patrick at this year's Startup School

http://bambax.smugmug.com/Other/2012-10StartupSchool/2708004...


We can't say much about timelines since so much is outside of our control, but we definitely want to launch in France.


Ready :-)


Any idea on a timeframe for full UK launch?

Stripe is a service I'd love to use, however I'm not yet at a stage(small revenues) where it would be worth bothering you to be part of the 'closed beta'.


Feel free to email! That way you'll definitely get invited when we launch fully.

With regard to timeframes -- it really depends on what we discover during the beta. There are no major, obvious blockers right now, though.


Will launches in new countries start happening faster after the first one? I have no idea which part of the process is the major blocker for this kind of service, but I would imagine that if it's laws, then every extra country will take a lot of extra work.

I ask this as an Israeli that would love to have a good service, but seeing as we're a tiny country I doubt we're high up on the list :)


Email sent :-)

Perhaps we should all use the title "UK beta" to help you filter them.


Have sent an email ("Can you help us?")! We were using Stripe in the US but are having to switch to Braintree in the UK for legal and accountancy reasons. I'd love to be able to continue using Stripe.


I've sent an email too. I'd say "You have no idea how much this would mean to the English folk", but you do, so I can only sit and hope you accept me! ukjbrooks [at] gmail [dot] com :)


Is there a timeline on this wait list?


Any plans to do direct debit with the payment processer in the UK?

(sorry, if it states that in the TC article...but I don't click TC articles)


Email sent, super excited! :)


Thanks for the heads up.

It's finally (almost) here!

This is the most excited I've ever been about a product launch. They've done a fantastic job keeping everyone in the dark and silently hoping. The thought of being able to easily charge credit cards on my sites has given me renewed faith in new business ventures.


Mailed, thanks.

For the benefit of others in the UK, if you sign up right now, the only countries on Stripe.com are US and Canada; so this step is a necessary one.


I'm starting to hate Stripe threads because all it becomes is people complaining it's not available in their country.

And of course people complaining about people complaining about it not being available in their country.


What you see as complaining maybe Stripe sees as valuable feedback that they can use in their business strategy. Imagine if there were 0 "complaints" - couldn't that be interpreted as a meaningful signal that interest in Stripe outside of the US is low?


Yeah, you're right. Though I can see how it'd be kinda annoying for others, we definitely find it really useful to hear about the things people wish Stripe did differently.


You guys are doing a fantastic job. Keep it up!


Oh don't get me wrong, I know if I was in any sort of leadership role at Stripe I'd love reading all the comments.

Where I'm coming from is (a) I'm sure the folks at Stripe know that there is a high demand for them outside of the North America (and now the UK), and (b) Is another comment on an HN thread saying "please come to [my country of residence]" going to change the pace or manner in which Stripe is rolled out internationally? I doubt it, but I've been wrong before.


function complain(people) { complain(people); }


Bitcoin is available in all countries; maybe people should look into that instead of waiting for stripe to arrive.


Not if you want to actually have a meaningful amount of sales (unless you're selling something illegal).


What a great idea!!! Now I can sell my goods in bitcoins exclusively and lock out 98% percent of my potential customers....


"Article 49 of the Treaty on the functioning of the EU (the freedom of establishment principle) allows entrepreneurs to set up a company in any EU country."

http://europa.eu/youreurope/business/starting-business/setti...

Also, "Any business legally established in an EU country may open a secondary establishment (office, agency, branch or subsidiary) in another EU country."

http://europa.eu/youreurope/business/expanding-business/open...

Now, someone should set up a web service which makes it easy for EU citizens to incorporate in the UK.


Now, someone should set up a web service which makes it easy for EU citizens to incorporate in the UK.

Dozens already http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk/toolsToHelp/formationAgents...


Or just apply to Companies House directly: https://ewf.companieshouse.gov.uk//runpage?page=welcome - There's almost nothing to it.

I did it a couple of years ago and it literally took 15 minutes of my time and cost £15.


Took me literally ten minutes and 10 pounds or so to incorporate. I use companies made simple, I am happy with them.



Today is a watershed moment for UK developers. I don't think it's hyperbole to say that. In a few years, we will look back on our lives before this day and wonder

a) Why the hell we put up with all that crap for so long. b) Why didn't we build Stripe ourselves.


> b) Why didn't we build Stripe ourselves.

In a way, we did. There are a couple of UK developers at Stripe -- and we want more: https://stripe.com/jobs.


But seriously, why didn't people in other countries do their own Stripe? It's not like the UK is short of talented engineers.


Paymill did a very similar service and is available in quite a few countries.


This is one of the best things that's happened to the UK in the payment industry in years.


Does it support Verified by Visa or Mastercard SecureCode? Not that I like them much, but they provide some protection for merchants against chargebacks.


I would also like to hear about their plans in this area. The current information on the Stripe web site says they don't use 3D Secure:

https://support.stripe.com/questions/3d-secure

I think if they're going to be a serious card payment service in Europe, that will need to change reasonably quickly. With the issue of transferring liability for chargebacks, saying "Well, US banks don't do it, and European banks understand that" isn't going to cut it for long with an international client base. After all, US banks don't do a lot of things, which is why we all have to use these Palaeolithic era card schemes to accept payments from US customers in the first place.


Absolutely; just to expand on the point - 3D secure is now prevenalant, if you just check for enrolment with 3D Secure - as a vendor you're generally no longer liable to chargebacks (there are a few edge cases around pre-paid and commercial cards). It doesn't matter if the issuing bank is signed up or not.

Paymill already support 3D secure - so I would have to imagine that stripe's 3D secure support can't be far behind.


I was wondering why Paypal were phoning me up a lot recently to see how I was doing and if I needed any help with anything!

We're lucky enough to be on the Beta, can't wait to dig in and start the transition.


Really good news. Can't wait to start taking payments by stripe for our "Stripe for Magento" extension, how about that for meta?


Awesome news!

Is it possible to use Stripe to handle third party payments? E.g. A site owner (A) creates a website. A user (B) of that site wants to sell a product. (B) creates a product page and accept payments from their own customers (C). Ideally (C) would pay (B) using Stripe, and (A) would receive a percentage of the revenue received from (C).


Stripe Connect with collecting fees? - https://stripe.com/docs/connect/collecting-fees


Damn, that's pretty fantastic. Stripe have been killing it.


stripe should launch in India, I'm more than ready to help out with that. The market here, for stripe is huge! A lot of alternatives exist, but all of them frankly su%k!


I don't think Stripe have any technical problems launching in India, it's pretty much all about navigating the regulatory hurdles.

They'd quickly get bashed into submission by the Reserve Bank of India guidelines, which is what happened to Paypal. The RBI will force all payment processors to be regulated as banks, or conduct business entirely through banks.


no, what happened to paypal was post 26/11 revelation that the splinter cells had used paypal to transfer money.

RBI is just another central bank.

Stripe is way different than Paypal. And yes, paypal is still running, the loss of business is due to the fact that they still haven't worked out the tax technicalities, and their UI has become complex.

EDIT: Just want to add, that right now is the right time to invest in India, because of the market conditions in general, organised retail is picking up, credit/debit card usage is increasing again, mobile payments has been introduced, taxation policy would become unified starting April 1 under GST& other singular taxes, and the economic potential of India.

India is 3rd on Purchasing Power Parity, yet it is only the barely top 10 in terms of GDP, and it all points to a under-saturated market. Really! Entering India, can make stripe into a multi-billion dollar company, if done right


Out of interest what makes Stripe compelling over other alternatives such as Sagepay?

This seemed to be an already solved problem ([company like sagepay] -> merchant account -> bank account) but there's a lot of fanfair here so I must not be understanding what makes Stripe different.


Short version:

* Sane well thought out APIs that let you do stuff very, very quickly and easily

* You don't have have a merchant account - so the time taken to get payments up and running drops from weeks/months to almost nothing

* Attractive fee structure - especially for bootstrapped projects (you don't pay them until you get paid)


Awesome. Here's hoping Denmark/Scandinavia is next.


I concur. The options in Denmark are at the moment pretty limited.


Well, yes and no - we have all the normal options that involve a merchant account and so on. What we don't have yet is the simple-to-setup solution that Stripe offers (unless https://www.paymill.com/ offers that solution - I'm not sure).


Why can't you use the UK version? With all of the EU being integrated, shouldn't it work across the entire thing?


EU isn't (yet) integrated in that sense (I wrote something on this issue some time ago: http://jonasbentzen.com/stop-generalizing-about-europe/ ).

We /might/ be able to use the UK version - let's hope that's the case. But then there's currency conversion issues (the UK uses pounds, some EU countries use the Euro, the Scandinavian countries use their own currency, etc.). On top of that there will probably be extra fees for transferring funds from a UK bank/entity to a Danish one, etc.


For one thing, it sounds like Pounds only at this point. Further, it likely requires UK addresses and bank accounts.


> Visa and MasterCard cards

You really need Dankort support in Denmark. A lot of people have a MasterCard and a large number of Dankorts are combination Dankort and VISA, but most prefer the Dankort. The fees are also a lot low (free I think) on the Dankort, for the customers at least.


True, but this is only the case if you're targeting Danes. If you're making an international SaaS or something like that, VISA + MasterCard is fine.


Their statement says "EUR coming soon" so it should be a good sign for Euro countries.


A subset of European countries use the euro of which Denmark is not one of that subset.


Ah, hmm. I guess it's probably a situation where just coming to the UK is already 90% of coming to the whole EU.


With all the pains of getting a merchant account running I think incorporating in the UK, getting a strip account setup and using transferwise to ship money home isn't such a bad option.


>With all of the EU being integrated

Only for the next 2 years.


Any plans for Germany?


We definitely want to launch in Germany, but can't say much about timelines as yet


https://www.paymill.com/ is a German company and offers a Stripe-like service for Germany and a large number of other countries.


I was happy to give paymill a try as Stripe was not available in Europe. I even fixed their Java API (The pull request was accepted pretty swiftly)

However they lost me when they introduced a breaking change to the API without notification. We were still in the testing phase, but this is just a big NONO.

Also they did not react to request about getting a new contract because of a changed Bank account.

Happy to use stripe though.


You'll love how stripe handles breaking changes. Each time they make a breaking change, they create a new version of the API, and keep all customers pinned on the current one. Then, in the UI I can choose to switch to a new version of the API, and see a list of what's changed. Of the 10 API versions since I started, 2 might have broken something for me, but I can just ignore that until I find time to upgrade.

Stellar stuff!


Australia is pretty much dominated by Paypal. Was excited to get to use Stripe for a new project but got sad when I realized it wasn't available here.


Pin [1] just launched last week. It is a similar all-in-one payment solution (no merchant account needed), but homegrown in Australia.

[1] https://pin.net.au


Why does it have a monthly fee? What are the differences between the US and AUS markets that require Australian users to pay three different fees to use a payment gateway?


I was part of the beta and wondered that too. It's almost like they don't expect to cover their internal costs with their (reasonably pricy) cut of each transaction.


From what I've heard, the Big Four banks aren't being the most cooperative, so my guess would be that Pin has had to make concessions to them.


At $work we use EWay and have been pretty happy with them as far as I know. Their API looks decent (it was integrated way before my time) and it just works. No idea about the costs though.


You could try Braintree, it's what GitHub uses.


We're working on it! :-)


How does Stripe mitigate PCIDSS requirements?


The card number never hits the merchant's web server, so currently they do not have to be compliant.

There is talk in the industry that this will be changing actually; as the card number is still vulnerable to javascript that run's in the merchant's web page. So if the merchant is hacked and their website is compromised then CC numbers are vulnerable. So it is likely at least some of the applicable PCI DSS requirements (and auditing of them) will eventually be required.


Anyone who takes credit card payments must be PCIDSS compliant. How the payment's taken is irrelevant.

Presumably Stripe reduces this to the level of completing the SAQ A?


That's the right way to explain it Yes.


I'd like to give a shout out to the guys from Paymill (www.paymill.com) - they sponsor the HNLondon events and when Patrick from Stripe turned up a few nights ago they were the ones that asked him to get on stage and give a quick talk, despite the obvious overlap of their products.


Cool, I hope Switzerland won't be last. 7m people isn't interesting enough for many companies. :(


Seeing how Switzerland isn't a member of the EU, I'd say don't get your hopes up anytime soon...


I'm not sure if that would be to their detriment. Demand in other EU countries is likely to go down, since it's plausible to incorporate (or incorporate a subsidiary) in the UK to get Stripe now :)


Same goes for Georgia (4.5m). Not even Paypal... So far only Skrill (Moneybookers).


Does anyone know an alternative to stripe for switzerland?


https://www.paymill.com/. There's been some criticism of them elsewhere in this thread, though. I don't have any experience with them myself.


This is great.. but when is it coming to the UK!?!?

...

Oh.


Beat me to the joke!


This is great news for UK businesses, welcome to our wonderfully miserably cold shores Stripe.

Although, you know it's much nicer up North outside London. Much nicer.


The founders are from Ireland, they know miserable cold shores!


Is there a sign up form for beta?


I want to know this also? However there is:

https://stripe.com/global

You can sign up to get notified about UK launch, you could try that, I have.


Finally!!!!!!




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