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So I just finished writing a comment about this here [1] that is highly relevant (moreso than the rest of this comment).

But I completely disagree with you. People use the term "democracy" constantly, so figuring out what it means (and what they mean by it) matters. So just ignoring it, as you suggest, is not a viable option at all.

From reading [1], you will pick up that I think we should define these terms by their essence, not (say) how closely some specific historical cases did or did not approach the ideal.

Moreover, it's been intellectually important for progressives to insist that the US is a democracy since the progressive movement began (1900s or thereabout), because democracy is necessary to implement their ideas. I'm not saying it was a grand conspiracy. Democracy is a core part of progressivism.

[1] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5169654



You are clouding the issue by not talking clearly about it. It’s semantic wankery, nothing more. And it’s irrelevant. Discussions about what words really mean always are.

We can use your weird definition of democracy, of course. That is perfectly acceptable. But you should also be aware that next to no one else is actually using that definition when they say democracy.

What is not possible is to define words in a certain (weird) way and then to infer from that what people are really thinking when they say democracy.

“Progressives” do not mean mob rule or majority rule when they say democracy. That is just absurd. Just because you define that word that way doesn’t mean everyone else is or wants to express what you defined they want to express.

You are just completely and utterly wrong, with a worldview clouded by ideological delusions.

(It really is an aside, but all progressives I know are strongly in favor of strong constitutional protections of rights that cannot be overridden by any majority, they are strongly in favor of a separation of powers and due process. When they say they want more democracy they most certainly don’t mean that they want to make it easier to abolish constitutional rights. You are attacking the most complete strawman ever.)


What is not possible is to define words in a certain (weird) way and then to infer from that what people are really thinking when they say democracy.

Agreed. People don't automatically follow your definitions. I'm not arguing that.

“Progressives” do not mean mob rule or majority rule when they say democracy.

They definitely do mean majority rule. Absolutely. What is democracy, if not majority rule?

You are just completely and utterly wrong, with a worldview clouded by ideological delusions.

You can't logically criticize my entire "worldview" based on how I think we ought to define the words "democracy" and "constitutional republic," and whether or not the definitions of words actually matter.

(It really is an aside, but all progressives I know are strongly in favor of strong constitutional protections of rights that cannot be overridden by any majority, they are strongly in favor of a separation of powers and due process. When they say they want more democracy they most certainly don’t mean that they want to make it easier to abolish constitutional rights. You are attacking the most complete strawman ever.)

Given that you use British Empire-style perjoratives (which are, by the way, rather harsh to my American ears), I don't think we're talking about the same thing by "progressives," because you're describing them incorrectly. According to Wikipedia, some parties in Europe have been using it to mean something different.

When they say they want more democracy they most certainly don’t mean that they want to make it easier to abolish constitutional rights.

The #1 hot progressive cause in America right now is gun control, which (in totality) requires abolishing the Second Amendment to the Constitution. Progressives also had to change the Constitution to permit income tax, which previously was a constitutional protection. So, you see, you're just wrong. These are seen as "democratic" reforms, by the way.


“They definitely do mean majority rule. Absolutely. What is democracy, if not majority rule?”

No they don’t. How did that crazy idea ever cross your mind?!




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