I saw this somewhere else, but it stuck with me: "if you get poop on your arm, do you wipe it off with a dry piece of paper - or do you wash with soap and water?"
I just realized my earlier comment may appear trollish. That really wasn't my intention.
I got a good chuckle from this discussion because I travel to Japan frequently. But no matter how many times I've encountered Japanese toilets, they still cause much amusement, confusion, and even some anxiety. (I say anxiety because sometimes it's hard to tell if pressing a button would cause the toilet to sing you a song or do something unexpected.)
After reading this article and seeing the very lively and rather in-depth discussion here on HN, I'm pleasantly surprised that I'm not the only one befuddled and fascinated by this bit of Japanese technology.
On the other hand, I've also spent time in parts of the world where there's no running water at all for flushing toilets. Hence the fringe nature of bidets in our society and toilet seats costing more than $1k = first world problems IMO. Not that it wouldn't make a great gift for the holidays.
If I got poop on my arm, I wouldn't use toilet water to wash it off.
This to me is the #1 reason I don't want bidets and would never use it. Pretty much the most repellent idea to me is the concept of the toilet spraying me back.
How's this for an idea... a sink next to the toilet where I can warm a piece of paper with water and use it. Nice, simple, and works well.
Or baby wipes. Those work really well too. Replicate this with an "adult version".
Yeah, and that is the same water you drink, too. It goes through the same kind of pipes, they just end in different places. You could do a A/B test and most probably you would not be able to find any difference between water from the toilet pipe and water from the kitchen pipe.
Yes the water is clean, but that's only for sure until it comes out from what is basically inside the toilet bowl. If that opening is dirty, the water will be dirty.
The spray head doesn't stick around in the middle of the bowl for you to poop on it. It stays tucked away inside (or below) the bidet machinery until you activate it, at which time it extends only as far as it needs to. When it's done spraying, it automatically retracts to its former position.
The water comes out of a little nozzle on the end of a wand that extends only when used. While you do your number 1 or 2, the wand is retracted inside the toilet seat (not bowl, above the bowl). Plus, after spraying, the nozzle will auto-clean itself before retracting.
I don't have the source handy, but I remember there were at least two very attractive features that started the trend of "advanced" toilets in Japan:
1) A seat heater: Bathrooms used to be unheated so without this it would be very cold in the winter. Adding a heated seated was much cheaper than adding a room heater.
2) An artificial sound to overlay embarrassing farting sounds: Without this feature, it was common for Japanese women to constantly use the flush in order to create a louder sound. This was obviously a huge waste water.
Once the ground was laid, it was natural to extend the number of features.
While we're knee-deep into the toilet conversation, you make an interesting observation. I'm originally from France and have lived in California for over 11 years but, to this day, I'm still astonished at how little embarrassment there is in American toilets (my experience is limited to the mens rooms) as far as unpleasant noise goes.
It is obviously a fact of life but, where I come from, denial is king in that department.
My theory is that it's because American public toilets are usually made of 2 thin, low separation walls and a door with sometimes wide gaps which makes it almost inevitable to share the entire experience with everybody in the room.
I think it's just cultural: American men are not expected to be discreet or embarrassed in "practical" all-male environments such as locker rooms and public toilets. A loud belch or other powerful, resounding emanation signals manliness... and it was funny when you were 7, it's still a bit funny now.
"off-screen sounds" as they're called in entertainment, meaning sounds that have no visual cue to explain their existence, ignite a fleet startle response from ear to brain. The science behind the funny and the awkwardness of farting or belching. When expressed loudly, might not even be that far from the roar of a large carnivore.
For working class white American men, that is not limited to public restrooms. They're doing it at home too and laughing about it to their wives/girlfriends/kids - who probably call them disgusting to which they laugh even more.
People with more class and manners tend toward the French way of doing it.
Funny or not (I don't think I'm any different from the natives in that regard), that doesn't explain why they would find it perfectly reasonable to share the joy in public where "fun" is certainly not the aim.
Those are hardly 'facts' as much as they are anecdata. From the working class families I grew up in and around, I could assert with just as much first hand data how baseless your assertions are.
This is an excellent example of circular reasoning, as I see it.
"More mannered people are more mannered because they do not do things I consider ill-mannered."
A fart is a fart. Go to southeast Asia, it's still just a fart that people laugh at. Go to Europe and fart and now leave a bad impressions due to culture? I see which is the optimal setup for practicality and sanity.
I don't think that "class" and "manners" are very healthy in this case. Farting is very natural and happens consistently. You shouldn't have to hide that or be embarrassed about it.
That said, I tend to look for bathrooms to relieve myself privately.
2) An artificial sound to overlay embarrassing
farting sounds: Without this feature, it was
common for Japanese women to constantly use
the flush in order to create a louder sound.
This was obviously a huge waste water.
Was this an issue because Japanese walls are thinner? Or homes smaller? Farting isn't considered particularly appetizing here either but I don't remember a single time this has been an issue (or ever hearing someone farting from outside the bathroom).
The flushing is designed to cover up 'all' sounds. There's a lot of weird fetishes and taboos and hangups people have out here, so I wouldn't read too deeply into it. Diet is probably not a factor.
A combination of a collectivist culture and crazy expensive real estate leads to more people living in smaller homes and in closer proximity to each others bowel movements.
The Japanese diet also probably plays a role......
There was a considerable increase in the number of dwellings in Japan with flush toilets from 45.9% in 1978 to 83.0% in 1998. This likely led to an increased acceptance of the new style of toilets because the North American & Western European style flush-toilets were not as prevalent in the home at the time and so an in-grained cultural use was not the determining factor for choosing new toilet styles.
They have notoriously bad breath and bad teeth. Travel guides for Japanese tourists even suggest they brush their teeth regularly and use mouthwash in America so as not to offend people.
Is this a joke? Japanese brush at least three times a day. Probably more than in most western countries. And they have tons of breath fresheners in convenience stores. You would not have such products if no-one was buying them.
This being said, I can certainly relate to the cigarette smell, but that's not only a breath issue, that kind of smell sticks to everything, from clothes to interiors.
Have you ever been to Japan? In my travels there I have not noticed any unusual halitosis, and I've spent plenty of time packed into the metro at rush hour.
While discussions of what goes on in the bathroom may make most Americans uncomfortable, it certainly isn't so taboo as to point out a different toilet. Perhaps the Japanese culture is different, such that, while people may have wanted to ask why you have a fringe toilet, social norms kept them from doing so.
I'm not Japanese, nor have I spent any time in Japan, so that's purely conjecture, but, knowing what little I know about Japanese culture, that wouldn't strike me as beyond belief.
You're right, Japan has a long and very interesting obsession with poop, primarily due to their geography.
Japan is a series of volcanic islands with, historically, a very limited indigenous supply of large poop producing creatures like like cows, horses, and pigs. The result is that there was a great scarcity of fertile soil. To supplement their soil they instead relied on human feces. So valuable was it that back in the day you could sell your poop to professional manure collectors who walked around town with large pots.
The cultural legacy extends well beyond toilets. You may have seen recent articles about people creating meat from poop, and poop powered motorcycles. It's no coincide that those are Japanese inventions. Funny how a thing like geography affects things.
Speaking on cultural differences and American willingness to discuss bathroom culture...
I, personally, don't like the idea of a warm seat. All I'll be thinking about is "someone else just used this toilet".
Maybe one day I'll use one and it'll change my outlook completely, like the George Foreman grill nudged my outlook on the validity of infomercial products. But, until that happens? Nope, no thanks.
Well, it is still more economical to warm up ONLY the seat than insulating the whole room. Especially since you do not stay hours every day in the restroom.
While that may be a tad arkward, it isn't as bad as it sounds. If I had one of these, I'd still leave toilet paper on the side for those who were uncomfortable with the concept of a Washlet.
Edit: After reading the other comments, it is apparent that this is probably a good idea for primary users too. Makes sure the job is done right.
Edit: Not every, of course. And the number would vary by region of the US. Excuse the universal quantifier :)