“I believe the government pressure was wrong and I regret that we were not more outspoken about it,”
"I also think we made some choices that, with the benefit of hindsight and new information, we wouldn’t make today,” he said, without elaborating. “We’re ready to push back if something like this happens again.”
The guy's entire career was founded on screwing over and lying to multiple business partners. He's such a fraud that they made a whole movie about it. Why would anyone trust this guy?
No one (at least no one of note) ever claimed that government coercion of social media was a "good thing". The controversy around the "Twitter Files" was (and remains) whether any such coercion[1] actually happened. Do remember the smoking gun request for a takedown turned out to have been penis photos.
But for the record, since consistent propriety is the subject of the subthread: as a left-leaning liberal, I hereby declare that I think coercing Twitter to remove content for political reasons is equally as bad as doing the same to Facebook.
[1] Not least because the entity doing the coercing was not the government, which was run by Biden's opponent.
I know that's how it works on the internet: All it takes to negate thousands of people with one opinion is for someone to come out and identify with them and say the opposite. Just one person!
Likewise, if thousands of people believe something, as long as they say "nobody ever claimed THAT!" then, it's as though they never believed it (despite it being obvious from every other indicator that they DO, in fact, believe that).
Unfortunately, it's all just silly internet sophistry and the real world happily ignores it.
> All it takes to negate thousands of people with one opinion
... thousands? You haven't cited even one! Which, as I eagerly point out, is exactly one fewer example than I provided. So even accepting your dismissal as framed, I win. By a lot.
Seems to me that it's the person asserting the existence of a conspiracy that needs to be the one coming to the table with evidence.
You're right, you win, by a lot. The real world is rearranging itself to comply with your interent win as we speak! Thank goodness you were here to save us all!
The government takedown requests that happened during the COVID pandemic peak were the government flagging disinformation and lies.
This is the a government flagging truths that they dislike.
Also, there's a big difference when one government has a proven track-record of abusing its power to punish dissenting media. AFAIK, the Biden admin never threatened to block mergers and similar business deals over speech they disliked. Yes, government requests always have the color of authority, but I don't know of any cases where there was any even implied threat behind it.
Well, other than the possibility of legislation that would make an official legal requirement of "no, you do have a responsibility to police your platform of disinfo where constitutionally legal (eg if it's foreign-government-funded propaganda)".
But an act of congress to elevate an policy into law if self-policing doesn't work is very different from abusing executive powers to punish people without any involvement normal due process of law.
For what's worth, I've actually changed my mind about this. I was originally fine with the government encouraging Twitter to take down pandemic related stuff, but after seeing what Trump has done... well, in hindsight, I think the Biden administration should have stayed out of Twitter moderation, just as the Trump administration should stay out of Facebook moderation.
I still think there is a difference in severity between what Biden did and what Trump is doing, but that's beside the point. The current administration has really demonstrated for me why free speech is so important. We should not compromise on that principle, even when it seems logical in the short term.
In certain contexts, harmful lies can be fraud, defamation, or perjury. It's reasonable for a social media company to have a policy that harmful lies are bad for their site, while still otherwise supporting free speech.
Trump claiming the election was stolen, vaccine disinfo - these are lies, and they're very destructive.
Meanwhile, the takedowns that are happening today are people being punished for stating the truth.
It's also striking to me that these folks cried hard about free speech when being deplatformed for harmful lies, but they're revoking visas for people who didn't show proper remorse for a conservative podcasters murder. Everything this administration and its supporters do is in bad faith. It's exasperating.
ICE are not police. That's part of the problem with your post. Revealing the public location of where masked federal agents are in unmarked cars kidnapping random citizens and non-citzens alike is not doxing nor harassment nor obstruction.
If your definition of "police" doesn't include ICE, then your opinion is not very well-informed by reality or history. Or maybe you just enjoy sophistry. Either way, good luck with that.
...so you'd hope the people upset about what happened at Twitter would be even more upset when the speech being suppressed has higher political salience.
"the term “restricted personal information” means, with respect to an individual, the Social Security number, the home address, home phone number, mobile phone number, personal email, or home fax number of, and identifiable to, that individual; "
One was banning deadly misinformation (e.g. injecting bleach) about a deadly global pandemic, as well as stopping the “doxing, threatening, harassment and obstruction of” public health workers.
This is preventing citizens from monitoring taxpayer-funded police activity - not all that dissimilar from listening to a police scanner.
Could you show me a serious post about anyone actually advocating for injecting bleach and not a misrepresentation of a question asked by the President?
Publishing a persons photos, with their home address and advocating for physical attacks is not "monitoring a police scanner" ... It's putting their families lives at risk. People aren't just peacefully protesting.. they're actively blocking legitimate arrests, throwing rocks and shooting at them. The fact that there hasn't been a bloodbath in and of itself mostly disproves the narratives.
>Could you show me a serious post about anyone actually advocating for injecting bleach and not a misrepresentation of a question asked by the President?
Obvious sealioning.
>Publishing a persons photos, with their home address and advocating for physical attacks is not "monitoring a police scanner" ... It's putting their families lives at risk.
The page in question never did such a thing. You are knowingly lying.
>blocking legitimate arrests
Extremely unlikely given the total lack of arrest warrants.
> The fact that there hasn't been a bloodbath in and of itself mostly disproves the narratives.
Yes it disproves your narrative that ICE agents and their families are in danger by people documenting states-sanctioned disappearances.
The supreme court has routinely held law enforcement can be recorded. You know this which is why you're insisting on pushing the lie about posting home addresses and advocating for violence.
A deportation order is a final judgment from immigration authorities that a non-citizen must leave the U.S., while a warrant is a legal document that authorizes an action, such as an arrest or search.
You don't get arrest warrants for deportation orders. The "due process" for illegal entry is deportation... if people don't like it, don't enter the country illegally.
Why are you lying about needing an arrest warrant?
>A deportation order is a final judgment from immigration authorities that a non-citizen must leave the U.S., while a warrant is a legal document that authorizes an action, such as an arrest or search.
Ok? They lack those in almost all cases too.
>You don't get arrest warrants for deportation orders. The "due process" for illegal entry is deportation... if people don't like it, don't enter the country illegally.
That's a gross oversimplification and completely dishonest.
>Why are you lying about needing an arrest warrant?
I am not. Never claimed arrest warrants are needed. ICE agents almost always lack a deportation order or arrest warrant. Almost all their 'detentions' lack any sort of order, their "probable cause" is arbitrarily believing people they see are illegal.
This is what happens in a vast majority of cases:
ICE detains a rando they think is an illegal -> They quickly find out they have a perfectly valid visa -> ICE immediately petitions for an immigration judge to revoke the visa for no reason -> the military judge appointed to be an immigration judge obliges and gives the visa-holder zero ability to appeal -> the visa-holder is now suddenly an illegal despite having a valid visa at the time of their detention and having committed no crime -> deported
No platform can be considered a useful and valid source of info if data about power structures is rendered unavailable as a routine matter.
The entire value prop of the internet as a human endeavor is in the "inter" part - connecting networks without regard to orthodox boundaries or power structures. An internet that yields to legacy state censorship is just a net.
I really need to take some time get into mastadon or lens or bluesky or whatever.
Bluesky is very easy to get into, although it's basically just "Twitter without as many Nazis" right now - its federation capabilities are barely used. Its starter-packs and algorithmic feeds are very good at quickly onboarding you.
Mastodon/Fediverse, on the other hand, is truly grassroots and federated instead of being a VC-funded cathedral, but it's just not nearly as successful and the usability barriers are higher.
We have always enforced laws selectively. Cops can let you off with a warning or ignore you going five miles an hour over the limit. Prosecutors decline to prosecute. Marijuana dispensaries are everywhere.
Which ones we pick to be super hardline about says much about us.
I’ve seen a lot of protestors in silly suits and dancing. The pastor who was shot from a rooftop the other day wasn’t being violent. The delivery guy on his push bike who they started chasing wasn’t being violent. One of the people in an inflatable suit was so incredibly dangerous that they sprayed tear gas into the suit vent. I'm guessing your news feeds are all Fox News?
I have seen footage of ICE agents shooting up cars and smashing windows.
Maybe you should show what you are seeing, because the subway sandwich guy in a chicken suit that Kristi Noem was looking at from a rooftop the other day didn’t look very dangerous or violent.
>I completely support the right to peaceful protest.
No you don't. Or at least defending ICE brutalizing them is a very contradictory way of showing that.
> But I draw the line when protesters fail to obey lawful orders
The "lawful" order of "we have arbitrarily declared this protest is an unlawful gathering, disperse or we will throw you in a cage"
> In those cases, I can understand how things escalate and ice agents lawfully use force to arrest the perpetrators.
You've been given several cases of ICE agents using force to arrest people who did none of those things. You defended it.
>Honestly, I think when protesters get out of line it acts like a recruiting ad for people neither of us want in law enforcement.
I think the $50k signup bonus, every administration officials twitter and their recruitment ads did that, not the peaceful protests you believe should be thrown in a cage for arbitrary things such as "they made the agents frustrated"
> When the protests begin to frustrate officers, the officers are going to understandably push back.
"Frustrated" = angry that a peaceful protest is happening and that people are daring to not be quiet
"push back" = violate the constitution and throw the peaceful protestors who did committed no crime in cages
Robby Roadsteamer was roughly and illegally detained/arrested by ICE while peacefully and nonviolently protesting on public property. He's got a good case for a 1983 lawsuit for unlawful detainment and violently preventing protected speech and lawful assembly.
Yep. I recently saw a video of ICE agents crashing into a commuter's car, pulling the crash victim out of the car, slamming her to the ground in a fit of rage and kidnapping her. Still can't find any update about what happened to her.
ICE agents routinely lie (even under oath) to get people wrongly convicted of crimes they did not commit.
There's many dozens of examples of this stuff happening but anyone asking for proof of this happening always demand more and more, refuse to acknowledge any prior abuse or outright defend it. They're functionally mouthpieces of the state.
John Cerrone, Afghanistan veteran was knocked to the ground after doing nothing wrong, detained unlawfully for nine hours in a blood and mucus encrusted cell whilst being taunted by ICE agents.
US marine corps veteran Daryn Herzberg II, who served in Afghanistan, is seeking $150,000 in damages after he was hospitalized after being tackled from behind by Ice agents while protesting outside a federal facility in Portland on 13 August.
In case you’ve forgotten, ICE shackled a bunch of Korean workers who were legally in the U.S. - they’ve all gone home now and won’t be coming back. Cost you fools billions.
“The person behind this claim is well-known for acts of violence outside the ICE facility in Portland, including throwing rocks and other objects at the building and personnel, agitating other rioters into violent actions, shouting inappropriate phrases and yelling at officers, assaulting officers, refusing to obey commands, and resisting arrest. Furthermore, he has used fake blood to falsify injuries. He has repeatedly perpetuated and encouraged violence against the brave men and women of FPS and ICE.
I defend the rights of peaceful protesters. It’s part of America. But if they refuse lawful orders, or interfere with government agents, then they deserve to be arrested.
You mean a story provided by an unnamed "senior DHS official"? Not buying it. This unnamed "senior DHS official" also refused to substantiate any of the claims they make.
Not sure why you'd take the word of an unnamed "senior DHS official" as gospel and completely ignore the video.
Maybe ICE agents should actually start wearing bodycams, but then again it is more cost effective for them to just fabricate entire stories that serve as justification to brutalize peaceful protestors. After all many people (you included) believe absolutely everything the government says without a second thought despite the video contradicting them.
The government is completely comfortable lying to everyone about everything, incouding easily refutable things caught on video. It is a wonder that people still take their word for it.
>I defend the rights of peaceful protesters.
As explained, you absolutely do not, in fact you do the opposite and go out of your way to defend people who brutalize and throw peaceful protestors in cages.
I just googled one of the names and came up with that. I’m not going to research every one.
As I said before, let’s see what the courts find provable. It should be pretty easy to see if he used fake blood, etc. The trial should bring some things to light.
Totally very extremely violent ambulance driver parking an ambulance gets threatened with murder by an ICE agent. I guess that's fine as ICE agents are beyond criticism and never ever at fault apparently.
The coward traitor once again needs to pipe up to defend other traitors lol. I think you just troll these threads like a Russian bot to rile people up . Last reply to me it's like you didn't even read my comment and just had anti usa LLM reply to me. Going off about the 1950s even tho my first sentence said civil rights act. And the 1800s even tho I quoted Patrick Henry 1776.... At least that comment got flagged and killed before I could be baited into engagement with a bot ..... But here we are.
They, law enforcement personnel, do. Who says they are taking illegal actions? Are you suggesting it is illegal to arrest and deport people who entered or stayed in the U.S. illegally?
Many of these people are targetted because of their skin color and appearance. That's just out and out racism. They have detained citizens. They don't identify themselves and actively wear masks so they can't be indentified. They wear vests with "police", but they are not police. They are jackbooted thugs and use unnecessary violence.
I can go on, it's not hard to find.
America used to be the model for progressively dealing with racism. No more.
How do I know? Because a Federal Court case found they had been targetted and it was illegal, and then your Supreme Court said this was quite fine. And no, a huge amount of people are citizens in America who aren't white - why are they getting accused of being non-citzens? Or is ICE only for white people?
Wearing a mask is not a reasonable response. And what violence and threats are you referring to? In Chicago people were dancing and wearing silly suits to protest them.
In terms of what a jackboot is, Google is your friend and you have a non-existent grasp of history if you have no idea what this means. Try also looking up "brown shirts".
So, by your own words, it's not illegal. But, in reality, the SC temporarily issued a stay of an injunction issued by a lower court. That case is still active. Again, I ask, if the majority of illegal immigrants hail from countries in the Americas that are South of the U.S., would we not expect the majority of deportees to also be from those same countries? As far as I know, there are not millions of illegal immigrants in the U.S. who originated from Western Europe. Please do correct me if I'm wrong.
> your Supreme Court
Are they not also your supreme court? If not, why are you so concerned about the enforcement of U.S. laws?
> And what violence and threats are you referring to?
Here's a smattering: [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6]
> Wearing a mask is not a reasonable response
...in your opinion. But, to return to your original claim: is it illegal?
> In terms of what a jackboot is...
I know what a jackboot is. I just wanted to give you an opportunity to explicate your implication. I think most readers are desensitized to the comparison of the enforcement of laws long on the books with Nazism.
It's not my Supreme Court, I'm not an American. It is my concern because you lot have been telling the rest of the world that you are the Freest Country On Earth And Everyone Else Is Inferior for quite some time now. As I say, for a while there many of us kind of thought that might actually be the case, but not any more. And I live in a country that is a staunch ally.
We've been watching your country for some time now tear itself apart, and watch as you all get sicker, weaker and poorer. You all think you live in the Greatest Nation On Earth, but you can't even afford to pay for your own health care.
I'm assuming you've never been pulled aside to prove you are an American by an ICE agent.
I'm watching your country slide into totalitarianism and cruelty. And I'm watching your economy slowly get hollowed out.
Your ICE agents are unaccountable, immoral and racist, and you are going the way of Germany in the the late 1930s. Good luck with that.
That previously existed with systemic bias of LEOs and judges, and jury nullification, but now it's there's an additional layer of lawless, unilateral, executive plenary usurpation. Oh and incremental gerrymandering stealing votes and absurd purchasing of political favors.
Wow, that's a bit of a straw-man argument. ICE agents should be able to enforce the law, within reason, and within their authority.
But they aren't enforcing the law, they are often taking highly illegal actions. If you've been only listening to Fox News, you wouldn't know it otherwise. But it's well documented what they've been up to. And it has caused widespread misery and none of these agents are accountable.
I mean, you clearly don't want law enforcement to be accountable for their actions. That's quite the take you've got there.
“I believe the government pressure was wrong and I regret that we were not more outspoken about it,”
"I also think we made some choices that, with the benefit of hindsight and new information, we wouldn’t make today,” he said, without elaborating. “We’re ready to push back if something like this happens again.”
were lies https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/zuckerberg-says-the-wh...