Yes, the Patriot Act sucks, even for many conservatives, but for shit's sake, man up and quit defending him. He had 2 fucking years to make any changes he wanted. Also, the Dems rolled through the entire Patriot Act. So, it seems like your beef is as much with them as with their opponents.
I believe in public schools and guaranteed-issue health insurance more than I believe that the PATRIOT act, which I do not support, is a vitally important issue that is destroying the republic with each passing minute. If we were, instead of making it easier for the FBI to unaccountably streamline judicial oversight --- which, again, is bad --- if we were instead interning Japanese people in camps, or blacklisting people from civil service jobs for supporting unions --- my judgement would be different.
These are, of course, my private political beliefs, and not at all relevant to the thread. They are the kind of thing you get, as opposed to details of the actual bill we're ostensibly discussing, when ask someone on a message board thread to "man up and quit defending" a candidate for office.
Ok, fair enough. You covered a lot in that comment, and I think I agree with a lot of it, even though I'm conservative.
And, my opinion on who/what is destroying our "republic with each passing minute" is much different than yours, but that's why we live here. :)
I agree, this convo has completely diverted from the original thread topic, but my comment was in response to your comment about civil liberties, etc. I'm happy to listen in to the other stuff, but when you venture out into other political philosophies, be prepared to debate. I don't care how smart you think you are :).
But, I stick by my original statement of, "man up and quit defending him." My gut tells me you're somewhere in-between, like I am, but only you can answer that...
I have a lot of respect for conservatives. I am most definitely not one of them, but many of my smartest friends are. I think conservatives are wrong; I don't think that they are part of a secret plot to make the rich richer and the poor poorer.
My mindset qualifies as "in between" on the Internet, but I am probably about as close to a mainstream Democrat as you could find in the real world.
I'm curious...My entire extended family is "traditional Democrat" yet they live conservatively with the values of conservatives not liberals. Yet they insist on voting straight Democrat, as if Jfk were in office. What is it about the Democratic party that you're attracted to? You've mentioned education and health care before...is that all?
I'm socially liberal and believe in a carefully regulated free market, as well. I don't think civil liberties are an issue that bind strongly to either party; there are principled advocates for civil liberties coming from both directions.
Technically he never had a supermajority of Democrats in the Senate. It was only with caucusing with independents that they could break the 60 vote threshold to end filibusters.
They had a caucused supermajority in the Senate from:
July 8th, 2009 - August 25, 2009
and
September 25, 2009 - February 4, 2010
Or about 4 months to make any change he wanted (that the caucus which included Joe Lieberman, an extreme defense hawk, and Arlen Spector who just switched parties, approved).
