> most information hostile environments in human history
Is it though? East Germany comes to mind as well as the rest of the Cold War countries behind the Iron Curtain. China seems to be pretty hostile as well. In the US, it is still much easier to find real information that counters the propaganda than it is in any of those other countries. There's no Great Firewall to bypass. You don't even need to do anything anonymously. Yes, the current administration is doing its damnedest to pull the wool over the eyes of their followers, but it's only effective for them. Nobody else is fooled nor stopping their publishing of the opposition to the propaganda.
What you're describing is an Orwellian dystopia, where a boot forces you to think a certain way. We live in a Huxleyan dystopia where there is so much so much to distract you that you become submissive.
The demographic collapse will likely lead to artificial wombs and llm powered vulcan style teaching pits crossed with diamond age primers. Huxley was more prescient than I thought when teading brave new world. I think the nation that has its primers teach the vat-made labor force rhetoric, logic and critical thinking will have lower gdp, but higher stability.
Yes, this, precisely. Our increasingly dystopian present features a fair amount of Big Brother, but Brave New World's soma is what drives and enables it, along w/ aspects of Gilliam's "Brazil"....
There is also so much that's womderful and amazing and positive. No light w/out darkness, "no mud, no lotus", etc. -- which IMHO it's increasingly important to focus on, deliberately.
> East Germany comes to mind as well as the rest of the Cold War countries behind the Iron Curtain
Psychology around ads and how to manipulate peoples thoughts were not nearly as well understood at the time. Large scale studies based on data collected of peoples behavior on computers has lead to dramatically better ability to manipulate and nudge people to do what you want.
The information environment was more oppressive there, but it was easier for people to have their own thoughts since the marketing was forced and blatant but way less manipulative and devious.
> East Germany comes to mind as well as the rest of the Cold War countries behind the Iron Curtain.
Typical American response confidently knowing literally nothing of what they speak of. RFE/RL[1] was widespread behind the Iron Curtain, and the situation of today has very little in common with the situation of back then (where my parents fought in a revolution, and I come from, fwiw).
I never said or meant to imply by not specifically saying something that the opposing view was unavailable back then. That's just willfully trying to twist the narrative to a purpose I don't know why it is necessary. But since we're here, we can compare/contrast.
RFE/RL could broadcast whatever it wanted. If you received it and heard the contrary views from what official stance was, you can pretty much just accept it. You couldn't just go and search for more information in a browser/app. Seeing video of things just wasn't happening over the air on your wireless. You couldn't jump onto social platform of choice and see images in real time. Information is so freely flowing today it is a joke to compare the two.
>Typical American response confidently knowing literally nothing of what they speak of
Sadly, this reads from someone with a person grudge that has nothing to do with the conversation. If you honestly think there was more information freely available then as compared to know, you've just disillusioned yourself for whatever reason. Yes, there was resistance back during the Cold War. Fax machines FTW. That still just does not compare to how freely flowing information is today. To call today the "most information hostile environments in human history" is just nonsense. How can you even compare it?
Honestly, you have no idea what you're talking about. Speaking as someone who was born and raised in a communist country that has since become a democracy, I can tell you firsthand: people living under those regimes are not stupid, blind, or easily manipulated, quite the opposite. When you grow up surrounded by propaganda, you learn to recognize it. You have to. It becomes second nature.
The idea that people in authoritarian countries are clueless about what’s really going on is arrogant and frankly ignorant. You think access to information equals awareness? That's naive. In reality, people under repressive governments are some of the most resourceful and skeptical thinkers you'll meet. They’ve spent their lives decoding lies and reading between the lines, because their survival often depends on it.
Even in places like China, people use VPNs, follow international news, and talk in coded language online — and they’re doing it knowing full well what’s at stake. They’re not buying into propaganda, they’re navigating it more carefully than most people in the West could ever imagine.
So before you talk down from your bubble of freedom and assume everyone else is brainwashed, take a step back. People who've lived under oppression often see through propaganda faster than those who’ve never questioned their own media. The difference is, some people just don't realize when they’re being spoon-fed a narrative — and that’s not usually the people you're pointing fingers at.
> Honestly, you have no idea what you're talking about.
> The idea that people in authoritarian countries are clueless about what’s really going on is arrogant and frankly ignorant.
You can't comment like this on Hacker News, no matter what you're replying to. The guidelines clearly ask us to avoid swipes and name-calling like this. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
This kind of personally-attacking comment is against the guidelines on HN, no matter what you're replying to. We've asked you before to avoid posting comments that break the guidelines, so it's annoying to have to ask you again. HN is only a place where people want to participate because others make the effort to keep the standards up. Please do your part if you want to keep participating here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
Up until recently with SCOTUS saying age verification is not rights infringing, I would have disagreed. Even with that, what else is blocked by default? It's easy to get hyperbolic in partisan discussions, but seriously, what else is being blocked that counters administration propaganda? Yes, Trump admin is changing data on the websites it controls. That's the right of any sysadmin to control and publish content they want. It would be a real bit of censorship if the admin said no other websites anywhere in its jurisdiction could publish contrary data. You can scream about FB/Twitt...er,X/socialPlatformOfChoice making decisions on its website, but again, I go back to it's their site to manage. You can choose to use it based on those decisions, but again, those are not the only sites offering contrary data.
I mean, maybe this way is worse. I can see how it could be far more obvious that the propaganda is BS when it's being pushed at you from every outlet and every form of media. Makes it more clear that it's controlled.
Yet at the moment where there is still diversity, people can make the mistake of thinking that the propaganda is just a difference of opinion so perhaps trust it more.
To me the propaganda is still blatant and there is only an engineered illusion of diversity, only inasmuch as it keeps people opinionated on the things that don’t matter. There’s also no foundational or universal desire for diversity, so alternative propaganda contexts may induce different focus areas.
Is it though? East Germany comes to mind as well as the rest of the Cold War countries behind the Iron Curtain. China seems to be pretty hostile as well. In the US, it is still much easier to find real information that counters the propaganda than it is in any of those other countries. There's no Great Firewall to bypass. You don't even need to do anything anonymously. Yes, the current administration is doing its damnedest to pull the wool over the eyes of their followers, but it's only effective for them. Nobody else is fooled nor stopping their publishing of the opposition to the propaganda.