1) are basic qualities expected in a decent human being - there is nothing uniquely Indian or heritage about it.
Yes exactly my point. Were you expecting rocket science?
The best parts of heritage come from doing the right thing. And doing the right thing is often hard and stark. Today is one of those junctures.
Heritage is not just historic, its being built right now. Your heritage today includes a grand ability to argue, and to mistake articulation for action. You didn't come across as someone who wanted to leave it at that.
Re: mysticism.
> I believed a relation between me and god is personal, and priests, temples, rituals have no business being there. Eventually, I became an atheist.
AFAIK, the personal, as opposed to institution driven, connection to 'God' lands under the penumbra of mysticism.
I am glad you have those answers, but those are your personal answers.
The answer to your question i.e. common heritage, is linked to 'Indian' history, which in turn is inextricably linked to religion.
For example : When the Mughals first came here, (and ironically displaced the previous Nawabs), they said that they found so many things different between the cultures that they could never foresee common ground being reached.
It was when the Sufi saints came though, and discussed their take on religion, that they found a lot in common with the cultures already here.
> I am saying it isn't and there isn't an authority which decides the Indian heritage.
I am not providing authority, I am providing history. You had a question, you got an answer. If you want your answer to be something else, well read through Indian history.
If anything, the history of India gives space for almost everything, be it a Fakir who wants to be close to gods by being close to the ashes of the departed, or someone who is an atheist and appreciates the logic of code.
----
Your final para is about having normal standards to deal with people. Its a great system, stick to it. But again, your question was about heritage not common sense behavior.
----
I am not sure what you were aiming for in your response. You've been able to point out that India is very diverse, which I agree. I am pointing out as well, that the way that melting pot was bound together was often through mysticism.
----
Here,
The west had its progression from the Greek states, their fall, the dark ages, the renissance, the enlightenment, the reformation, along the way including things like the french revolution, women's suffrage and civil liberties.
India followed another path altogether. Indian heritage is defined by that path.
> Yes exactly my point. Were you expecting rocket science?
I was expecting a logically sound, coherent response - not straw-man appealing to mysticism.
My original question was I am having a tough time figuring out what is this Indian heritage, and I don't see which part of me comes from Indian heritage, and not from being a decent(or indecent) human being and common sense. The answer is none. It was as simple as that.
> Your heritage today includes a grand ability to argue, and to mistake articulation for action. You didn't come across as someone who wanted to leave it at that.
"grand ability to argue"
"mistake articulation for action"
Take a breath.
If you don't want to discuss(or argue as you put it), don't throw around bullshit on public forums. More importantly, don't add more bullshit on existing pile(mistake articulation for action? Where the fuck that came from?)
> I am glad you have those answers, but those are your personal answers.
Never claimed otherwise.
> I am not providing authority, I am providing history. You had a question, you got an answer.
No, I don't have an answer to my question that "I am having a hard time figuring out what exactly is my Indian heritage". For the nth time, when you specifically label something as "Indian heritage", it has to be specifically Indian and inherited, not something which is common among people worldwide.
> If you want your answer to be something else, well read through Indian history.
Now what on earth would that mean? If I want my answer to be different, read History? And get the fuck off your high horse. Reading a couple of books and assuming other people don't know about Indian history isn't a commendable quality.
> Your final para is about having normal standards to deal with people. Its a great system, stick to it. But again, your question was about heritage not common sense behavior.
Please stop intentionally misrepresenting my question and your answers. In response to what the hell is Indian heritage question, you had a blurb about helping north-eastern folks, to which I said is a common sense behavior and not some distinctly Indian heritage.
> I am pointing out as well, that the way that melting pot was bound together was often through mysticism.
If you are just going to throw claims around, have some citations for what is your mysticism and how it binds India. And no, "read history" doesn't cut it - cite me particular instances and occurrences. India isn't and was never bound(if it is bound at all) by religion.
EDIT: And if it's still too hard for you to comprehend why I was pointing out India is a diverse country, my purpose was to establish there is no "Indian heritage/culture/tradition/whatever". India is gigantic and diverse, and there isn't a common pattern significant enough to warrant a mention. When different parts of India has significantly different culture and tradition on macro(north-south) and micro(tamil brahmins and non-brahmins, castes within the same religion), Indian culture means nothing, and that is a good thing. Same goes for Indian heritage.
Do a quick search on mistaking articulation for action, it should be helpful. The first I heard it from was a diplomat, Swiss I believe. The top search result is from Sir Swan, the gent who reached both poles.
So that's where it came from.
It very justly describes the majority of India.
I used to use the India is too big and diverse argument myself.
Yes India is diverse, yes for every x it's opposite x' also exists.
I use it where relevant even today. Unfortunately with time comes change, and that theory which I thought was unassailable, I can now see nuances in.
Anyway, it seems we are speaking past each other. I wish you well.
> Do a quick search on mistaking articulation for action, it should be helpful. The first I heard it from was a diplomat, Swiss I believe. The top search result is from Sir Swan, the gent who reached both poles.
So that's where it came from.
I don't know how and why you got the idea I couldn't understand an English phrase consisting of 3 simple words which are most probably part of a 5th grader's vocabulary.
If you find "mistaking articulation for action" thought provoking and profound, good for you. To each his own; many people find "early to bed, early to rise" or "time is money" profound as well. The good thing is I don't have to pretend I don't find it inane and obvious. I did a google search just in case it has some interesting back story like "Keep calm, carry on" - I didn't find anything.
When I said "where did it come from", I meant why are you throwing this at me. Did I say by posting on HN I am changing India? It's like you randomly wanted to use some phrase you heard somewhere and posted it in the reply.
> Unfortunately with time comes change, and that theory which I thought was unassailable, I can now see nuances in.
We are well past discussion, but your personal perception change doesn't mean India has changed - it's still diverse and averse to generalizations. If it were uniform, that would have been fine with me. But it isn't, and any attempts to make it look so, or actually make it so(the horror) are just wrong.
Yes exactly my point. Were you expecting rocket science?
The best parts of heritage come from doing the right thing. And doing the right thing is often hard and stark. Today is one of those junctures.
Heritage is not just historic, its being built right now. Your heritage today includes a grand ability to argue, and to mistake articulation for action. You didn't come across as someone who wanted to leave it at that.
Re: mysticism.
> I believed a relation between me and god is personal, and priests, temples, rituals have no business being there. Eventually, I became an atheist.
AFAIK, the personal, as opposed to institution driven, connection to 'God' lands under the penumbra of mysticism.
I am glad you have those answers, but those are your personal answers.
The answer to your question i.e. common heritage, is linked to 'Indian' history, which in turn is inextricably linked to religion.
For example : When the Mughals first came here, (and ironically displaced the previous Nawabs), they said that they found so many things different between the cultures that they could never foresee common ground being reached.
It was when the Sufi saints came though, and discussed their take on religion, that they found a lot in common with the cultures already here.
> I am saying it isn't and there isn't an authority which decides the Indian heritage.
I am not providing authority, I am providing history. You had a question, you got an answer. If you want your answer to be something else, well read through Indian history.
If anything, the history of India gives space for almost everything, be it a Fakir who wants to be close to gods by being close to the ashes of the departed, or someone who is an atheist and appreciates the logic of code.
----
Your final para is about having normal standards to deal with people. Its a great system, stick to it. But again, your question was about heritage not common sense behavior.
----
I am not sure what you were aiming for in your response. You've been able to point out that India is very diverse, which I agree. I am pointing out as well, that the way that melting pot was bound together was often through mysticism.
----
Here,
The west had its progression from the Greek states, their fall, the dark ages, the renissance, the enlightenment, the reformation, along the way including things like the french revolution, women's suffrage and civil liberties.
India followed another path altogether. Indian heritage is defined by that path.