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Degrowth isn’t a realistic nor acceptable solution to climate change. People aren’t going to accept a lower standard of living because scientists and activists told them they should. The only solution is technological progress.



Don't worry, unlivable conditions will force lower standards of living on everyone except the elite.

It's already happening for many people today who had no choice in the matter while people in developed countries have an endless stream of excuses.

Degrowth is inevitable. The only difference is when it happens, which is dictated by our choices. We're speed running it and using every excuse we can come up with.


> Don't worry, unlivable conditions will force lower standards of living on everyone except the elite.

Thank you, I didn't know that was the real goal of the climate movement. Just one question: How do you intend to force unlivable conditions, which in turn will force lower standards of living? I mean, which is the cause and which the effect if they are at all different?

Also, you have to advertise your goals more aggressively, don't be timid. I imagine the billboards:

"Degrowth is inevitable"

"Fight for unlivable conditions and low standards of living for everyone except the elite".


60 percent of Americans can’t afford a basic quality of life. People are having less kids because of their economics globally. The existing system is the forcing function.

https://www.unfpa.org/news/fertility-fallacy-five-things-you...

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/clynq459wxgo

This is before climate impact accelerates.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetary_boundaries

https://www.weforum.org/press/2024/01/wef24-climate-crisis-h...

Living standards won’t increase because demographic dividends from growing working age populations is over, and total fertility rates are rapidly declining globally.

https://www.mckinsey.com/mgi/our-research/dependency-and-dep...

https://www.cato.org/cato-journal/spring/summer-2018/demogra...


That went completely over your head. Was missing the point on purpose?

Climate change is already here and happening. You can easily see how it's changing global supply chains and agriculture. Many coastal and island people's have already had to relocate or are spending massive amounts of money trying to relocate(or mitigate sea level rise).

Tens of thousands of people are dropping dead every year from just the heat. Heat that's never hit their parts of the world. Then we have drought(desertification), hurricanes/typhoons of record size, dust storms, disease outbreaks, flooding, wildfire, extreme winter weather. The list is huge and obvious.

There are no lack of clear examples that the climate is becoming less hospitable to humans. And there's no denying it is being caused or accelerated by human behavior. Our models are accurate and paint a very clear picture of what's causing the climate to change: human consumption derived climate change.

Climate change is already forcing growth to slow. It won't be long until degrowth is happening. There are no downsides to curbing our consumption now.

The reality is we have been enjoying subsidized food and products since the industrial revolution. We have known our extreme-consumption is not sustainable since the 1960s. We've been taking on climate debt with our $3 patriot beef burgers and cheap plastic shit. The climate is now calling due on that debt.


I think it's great when people argue in bad faith and waste everyone's time.


Come on, chneu is saying that the physical effects of climate change will force unlivable conditions on everyone, not the climate movement.


Technological progress is not a solution to anything. It's the prime cause of the problem.


Girolamo Savonarola is vigorously approving this view of the world.




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