36 years is counting from the first CFront release. Counting the same way for Rust, it's been around since 2006. It's got almost 20 years under it's belt already.
edit: what's with people downvoting a straight fact?
Rust 0.1, the first public release, came out in January 2012. CFront 1.0, the first commercial release, came out in 1985.
The public existence of Rust is 13 years, during which computing has not changed that much to be honest. Now compare this to the prehistory that is 1985, when CFront came out, already made for backwards compatibility with C.
I grew up with all the classic 8 bit micros, and to be honest, it doesn't feel like computing has changed at all since 1985. My workstation, while a billion times faster, is still code compatible with a Datapoint 2200 from 1970.
The memory model, interrupt model, packetized networking, digital storage, all function more or less identically.
In embedded, I still see Z80s and M68ks like nothing's changed.
I'd love to see more concrete implementations of adiabatic circuits, weird architectures like the mill, integrated FPGAs, etc. HP's The Machine effort was a rare exciting new thing until they walked back all the exciting parts. CXL seems like about the most interesting new thing in a bit.
Yeah, I almost called that out. Probably should have. GPU/NPU feels new (at least for us folks who could never afford a Cray). Probably the biggest change in the last 20 years, especially if you classify it with other multi-core development.
Meaning that all the machines I've ever cared about have had 8 bit bytes. The TI-99/4A, TRS-80, Commodore 64 and 128, Tandy 1000 8088, Apple ][, Macintosh Classic, etc.
Many were launched in the late 70s. By 1985 we were well into the era of PC compatibles.
in 1985 PC compatibles were talked about, but systems like VAX, and mainframes were still very common and considered the real computers while PCs were toys for executives. PCs had already shown enough value (via word processors and spreadsheets) that everyone knew they were not going away. PCs lacked things like multi-tasking that even then "real" computers had for decades.
My https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tandy_1000 came out in 1984. And it was a relatively late entry to the market, it was near peak 8088 with what was considered high end graphics and sound for the day, far better than the IBM PC which debuted in 1981 and only lasted until 1987.
Because it is counting since CFront 2.0, the first official release with industry use in UNIX systems.
So that would be Rust 1.0, released in 2015, not 2006, putting it down to a decade.
And the point still stands when looking at any long enough ecosystem still in use, with strong backwards compatibility, not only the language, the whole ecosystem, eventually editions alone won't make it, and just like those languages, Rust will gain its own warts.
Fair enough. I can cop to getting the CFront date wrong. Still, a decade since 1.0 is non-trivial.
> eventually editions alone won't make it, and just like those languages, Rust will gain its own warts.
That's possible. Though C++ hasn't had editions, or the HLIR / MIR separation, the increased strictness, wonderful tooling, or the benefit of learning from the mistakes made with C++. Noting that, it seems reasonable to expect Rust to collect less cruft and paint itself into fewer corners over a similar period of time. Since C++ has been going for 36 years, it seems Rust will outlive me. Past that, I'm not sure I care.
C++ editions are -std=something, people keep forgeting Rust editions are quite limited in what they actually allow in grammar and semantic changes across versions, and they don't cover standard library changes.
IDEs are wonderful tooling, maybe people should get their heads outside UNIX CLIs and MS-DOS like TUIs.
Then there is the whole ecosystem of libraries, books, SDKs and industry standards.
I'm not sure who in your mind is forgetting that, or what the rest of your comment means to communicate.
Who are you speaking to who hasn't explored all those things in depth?
I see Rust's restrictions as a huge advantage over C++ here. Even with respect to editions. Rust has always given me the impression of a language designed from the start to be approximately what C++ is today, without the cruft, in which safety is opt-out, not opt-in. And the restrictions seem more likely to preserve that than not.
C/C++ folks seem to see Rust's restrictions as anti-features without realizing that C/C++'s lack of restriction resulted in the situation they have today.
I only maintain a few projects in each language, so I haven't run into every sort of issue for either, but that's very much how it feels to me still, several years and several projects in.
Many of the members of the Rust Evangelism Strike Force, as main audience. That is to whom it is targeted for, given the usual kind of content that some write about.
I agree that Rust is designed to be like C++ is today, without the cruft, except all languages if they survive long enough in the market, beyond the adoption curve, they will eventually get their own cruft.
Not realizing this, will only make that 30 years from now, if current languages haven't yet been fully replaced by AI based tools, there will be that language designed to be like Rust is in 30 years, but without the cruft.
The strength of C++ code today is on the ecosystem, that is why we reach for it, having to write CUDA, DirectX, maybe dive into the innards of Java, CLR, V8, GCC, LLVM, doing HPC with OpenAAC, OpenMP, MPI, Metal, Unreal, Godot, Unity.
Likewise I don't reach for C for fun, the less the merrier, rather POSIX, OpenGL, Vulkan,....
> Many of the members of the Rust Evangelism Strike Force, as main audience.
Well I'm not them. I'm just a regular old software developer.
> The strength of C++ code today is on the ecosystem
Ecosystem is why I jumped ship from C++ to Rust. The difference in difficulty integrating a random library into my project is night and day. What might take a week or a month in C++ (integrating disparate build systems, establishing types and lifetimes of library objects and function calls, etc) takes me 20 minutes in Rust. And in general I find the libraries to be much smaller, more modular, and easier to consume piecemeal rather than a whole BOOST or QT at a time.
And while the Rust libraries are younger, I find them to be more stable, and often more featureful and with better code coverage. The language seems to lend itself to completionism.
edit: what's with people downvoting a straight fact?