I feel like in either case any opinion should have to depend on how the group explians the purpose of it's policy, and has to actually be merely a "social group" with no material consequences to membership.
People seem to have an opinion that reflects the nature of both points here.
Shouldn't there be material consequences? Whichever group is materially better (better at magic, better at drawing audiences to a venue, whatever the KPIs) should benefit materially, right?
And presumably that's a mixed group of men and women, because heterogenous groups wrt sex/gender are better.
I am saying that their "but if a man did it" argument has at least 2 large plot holes.
Some groups have some explicable defensible necessity for the discrimination. People would indeed have a different opinion about a man violating his way into a group for women recovering from being violated by men. This mgaician group can not, or at least has not, produce any such justification of fundamentally unavoidable necessity.
And the group has to actually be merely a social club as they said. They used those words as part of their argument, so you can't consider any groups with any kind of material consequences when comparing "but what if a man did it". If a man is a knitter and there was agroup that billed itself as the worlds best knitters, that is a material consequence. There is a badge that is recognized as indicating the best, and they meet the standard, yet they can not have that badge that tells clients that they meet the standard. This group does appear to have that quality at least somewhat, and so is not just a "social club".
Then you're not acknowledging that a group for men that has a specific kind of power within a certain sphere that has excluded women is very different than a group for women in that same sphere. There is no uniform rule that can be applied, which is where you're getting tripped up. Uniform rules often favors control by those who have power.
You would think that magicians, of all people, would appreciate a well-executed and harmless deception. More proof that no matter who you are, nobody likes being the butt of the trick...
The Magic Circle is selling itself as "the world's premier magic society", complete with titles. That's not a harmless men's club, excluding women from that makes it harder for them to make it as professional magicians.
As for the immorality of deceiving a bunch of professional magicians, spare me. Literally no harm was done.
As long as the other sex also has the same opportunity to join a similar group, I agree.
But when there is no proper alternative for a man or woman to join a similar club, it's more about the exclusion of people with the same interest but happen to have the wrong sex.
You can't have diversity without exclusion. In order to create a space that has some vibe different from the lowest common denominator of general public, you need to exclude everyone except some groups. Case in point: when I'm organizing a house party, I avoid inviting people who would ruin the vibe, even if they're otherwise fine people.
As much as some people hate to admit this, the recent cultural shift overcorrected towards feminism and non-white races. I'm not saying that Andrew Tate will become mainstream, but I guess in near future it will become acceptable again to shamelessly be a white straight man.
Its a shame it needed a female leader of the Magic Circle to make this happen. Neither the original story, the ridiculous, petulant response or long time to a resolution are a good look for the society.
> Sophie Lloyd says she disguised herself as a man to fool examiners into letting her join the elite society in 1991, at a time female magicians were not allowed to be members.
> When the Circle announced it was permitting women to join later that year, Ms Lloyd revealed her deception, prompting the society to expel her at the very same meeting it admitted its first female magicians.
> But the Magic Circle did not take kindly to the news. The duo got a letter saying that Raymond had been expelled, and in October 1991, at the first meeting accepting women into the society, Ms Lloyd was kicked out.
Interesting—there was a fantasy novel with much the same premise that came out in early 1992—The Lark and the Wren. Just with bards, instead of magicians. I wonder if these real events were an inspiration?
