In my case: yes and yes. In my case: everything works out of the box with one laptop. The only thing that doesn't work out of the box with my other laptop is the fingerprint reader. Both laptops shipped with Windows. Neither laptop came with any claim of Linux compatibility. Contrast that to Windows, where sleep mode is unreliable on one. You cannot even do a clean install Windows without jumping through hoops on said laptop since generic media does not include WiFi, trackpad, or touchscreen drivers.

Every operating system has issues and operating systems that don't work for some people may work for others. From this thread alone, I can guarantee you that there are at least two people in this world for whom Linux supported their hardware out of the box.

What laptops are you on?

I can guarantee you that there are at least two people in this world for whom Linux supported their hardware out of the box

There are lots of people for whom it’s true, cause there’s a lot of hardware either old and stable enough to be supported, or Thinkpad. “Old” doesn’t mean bad hardware, but it’s not everyone’s or “DO IT” hardware either.

Either way, people who say “do it” often forget to mention either the issues (both hw and sw) or which hardware they are using. Props to ggp for specifying their laptop model, but I still would like to know if sleep works for them cause that’s the first point I’m skeptical at. We can’t just logical-or all the good experiences from different people, it doesn’t work like that.

Of course working sleep doesn’t erase all the sw issues an average linux desktop user will have. But let’s be honest and not fanboy-ish.

I like linux much much more for servers and as a set of system idioms. But its Desktop side is plagued by all sorts of long-standing problems, including low quality software that breaks itself regularly or has unfixable “nuances” reasoned from buggy to delusional. The base GNU/Linux system is absolutely fine and stable and reliable (software-wise). But you can think of Modern Linux Desktop as a sort a slap-over patch that isn’t Linux spirited at all.

And when you point these out, the happy welcoming tone often changes from “it just works” to “you get what you paid for, feel free to patch” then to “it’s their project, they are free to reject patches”, then to just crickets.

A Lenovo that is so low-end and generic that they don't even bother assigning it a coherent model name/number and a Lenovo Yoga 7.

To be blunt, I am on the other side of the fence: I am quite skeptical when people make blanket statements about Linux not working. One of the benefits of open source is the ability to distribute software with few restrictions. One of the benefits of many Linux distributions is the frequent update cycle. Those two factors mean there is a fairly strong possibility that hardware will work straight after installation. Of course there are exceptions. Some hardware simply isn't supported. It is also possible choose a distribution, like Arch, where the end user is expected to configure almost everything themselves. That said, Windows isn't exactly great on this front either. While the hardware is likely supported, manually installing drivers can be intensive.

End user applications, including things like the desktop environment, are an entirely different situation. Here too, I am skeptical of blanket statements. The biggest hurdle is a lack of familiarity: most people are brought up on Windows. They expect software to work as it does under Windows. I'm on the other side of the fence. Having used Linux for over a quarter of a century, I expect software to work as it does under Linux. I can assure you that I have as many problems with Windows as most Windows users have with Linux. As for bugs: Windows applications have those too. The big difference is that you paid for them and there is a relatively low chance they will ever be patched. Granted, I am not advocating for open source software based on the ability of end users being able to patch bugs. Almost no one does, because almost everyone realizes that most end users lack the skills to do so.

I agree that issues in what you’re used to feel more acute. But I’ve spent my time on linux not less than on windows and osx (and dos, fwiw). Each claimed at least seven years of my life (but ofc windows was in the background all the time). The issues I mentioned in the linked post are very non-blanket and very specific. I know some solutions, but they have their own set of nuances (e.g. I know xfce would work fine for me, but it cannot deal with 1.5x scaling well, so I’d have to buy an extra display, which I have my requirements for and that’s far from being cheap, so…).

Yes it’s only a subset of all software that I have issues with, and only at this point in time, and only in my workflows. But please forgive me the blanketness if I say so from definitely non-zero experience and living through that periodically, on different distros/environments, with mostly the same result. And it’s not only me, the guys who see me working on it, or doing simple things on it themselves ask me why it is like that. I just say “because it’s linux”, cause what else can you say. Most of these issues are “just shtupid” and can’t compare to the issues I’ve had with win/osx.

I love linux - I work in msys2-enabled console all the time. I have studied APUE, that thick brick of knowkedge. I use it for my “gigs”, and I run a few linuxes in virtualbox and as VPS, all time. But this “DE” part, man.

Thinkpad T480s - yes all of those work. As for choosing a distro: Fedora with Gnome worked 100% out of the box. I’ve even been able to play a bunch of games on steam without issue too.