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How many square kilometers of land does Israel gain this time?



You are aware, I hope, that Israel pulled back from Gaza completely in 2005, and from Sinai in 1980?

It’s been growing smaller since 1973 (and never technically annexed any area it did temporarily take in a war)


That's not correct. Here is a map of how the West Bank settlements have grown over the years, from 1967 until 2024: https://apnews.com/a-look-at-how-settlements-have-grown-in-t...


You are aware, I hope, that Gaza is not in the West Bank?

The west bank has borders with Jordan and Israel.

Gaza has borders with Egypt and Israel.

Israel indeed never pulled from the West Bank, and sadly, it does let settlers live there. But it did not grow the taken area. And when Israel pulled from Gaza, it removed the settlers.


It absolutely grows the taken area in the west bank.


The entire West Bank is occupied since 1967. Are you saying Israel is invading Jordan?


No, it grows the parts in which settlers live inside the West Bank and increasingly restricts life of the Palestinians there. And I'm pretty sure you know that.

If you want to talk about occupying new land, this has been happening too in the recent months: As of today still in southern Lebanon and "prophylactically" in the eastern Golan heights and on Mount Hermon (not even talking about the previously annexed western Golan heights anymore).

Meanwhile, the settler movement is openly talking about settling Gaza, southern Lebanon and eventually "from the Nile to the Euphrates": https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-10-21/ty-article-ma...

One could discount them as a bunch of crackpots as they exist in every state, except that those guys have strong representation in the government and several Likud party members and government ministers were visiting their conference. They have power.


I am well aware, as I have written in other comments. The occupation is of the same size, the settlements are getting larger within it. Sadly.

The settler movement are crockpots that have non trivial government representation. They also had representation in 1982 and 2005 and that did not stop the Israeli government from relocating those settlers back inside Israel using force, while retreating from Sinai and Gaza respectively.

Whether that will happen again when (if) a peace agreement is ever reached remains to be seen; it is not a certainty either way.


Is that true though, given that Israel informally takes over more and more of the West Bank? The settlers...


Yes, that is true that Israel pulled back from Gaza completely in 2005, removing its settlers in the process.

Gaza and the West Bank are distinct.

Israel never pulled back from the West Bank, but that part of the occupation is the same size as it was in 1967. The West Bank occupation did not grow smaller (nor did it grow larger - it's the same size). Sadly, Israel does let settlers settle there, but if an agreement is ever reached, they will likely be removed like those in Gaza.


At some point - if you let people settle and multiply for decades, it may just be too late. Impossible to remove unless you start using lethal force, which would impact politics and votes.


Well, we have two precedents we can consult.

Israel occupied Sinai in 1967 and had settlements there[0]. Then, following a peace agreement with Egypt, Israel pulled back in 1982, removing all the settlements and settlers, some by force.

Israel occupied Gaza in 1967 and had settlements in Gaza starting in 1968 or so, few at first, and then starting 1978 (iirc) a lot more than a few. In 2005 - which is 37 years ("decades") later, Israel pulled back, removed the settlers using threats of lethal force to do so. And it did, impact politics and votes - those who supported the move mostly thought, up until 7-oct-2023, that it was the right move. And those who opposed it, thought, up until 7-oct-2023, that it will explode in Israel's face at some point. (Whether you consider the latter vindicated or not depends on a lot of things and is not a trivial binary answer).

The "lethal force, politics and votes" requirement did not stop the Israeli government from removing settlers before. Will it stop them in the future? I have no idea.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_occupation_of_the_Sina...


That is very insightful, thank you.


I don't think the Palestinians expelled from the West Bank by Israeli settlers agree with that


Can you find, on the map, an area which was not occupied by Israel in 1968, but was occupied on Oct 6 2023 (before the Hamas attack on Israel which prompted Israel's re-occupation of Gaza in 2023-2024?)

Some are being relocated inside the West Bank, which is horrible, heinous and possibly a war crime, but they remain within the (occupied since 1967) west bank.


And settler = occupant


Israel invaded Syria in 1967, stealing land, and they just pushed farther into Syria, stealing even more land. How is this growing smaller?


> growing smaller since 1973

Propaganda machine at work, I see.

Israel is clearing land in the West Bank to this day, even if they haven't "annexed" the land officially.

But hey, according to their own maps it's already part of Israel, so yeah, you're right:

https://www.gov.il/en/pages/topographical-map-of-israel


Israel is occupying the West Bank in the same way that it did since 1967. That occupation did not grow larger (or smaller).

The policies are heinous, possibly war crimes.

But Israel did also occupy Sinai and Gaza, and no longer does (well, it didn't until 7-oct-2023, at which point, Gaza opened a full fledged war which prompted Israel to re-occupy Gaza)

It still occupies the West Bank, and may or may not continue to do so, may or may not annex it. Prediction is very hard, especially about the future.


[flagged]


Can you show me, on the map, an area which was not occupied by Israel in 1968, but was occupied 6-oct-2023? Because I can show you the opposite.




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