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I think the problem is that small tools are missing that "comprehensively" part.. trying something as simple as getting full system startup log (something very useful on headless system!) - it was basically impossible until systemd came. Only gentoo tried to do this for a few years, but then that functionality broke.

Same goes for service startup - why does start-stop-daemon discards stdout/stderr instead of logging it? This would be trivial to fix, but somehow this was not available until upstart (and then systemd) did it.



This seems like the motte and bailey thing.

Some of the oldest init systems made decisions that were sensible at the time but not so much now, e.g. when storage is hundreds of thousands of dollars per GB you don't want to log everything, when it's tens of cents per GB you do. But you can obviously make a non-monolithic init system that causes output to be stored to a log instead of being discarded.

So then systemd comes in, solves some of the old problems and independently, unnecessarily introduces new ones by being a huge monorepo that lacks clean and stable interfaces between its own components, inhibiting anyone else from providing a viable competing implementation of an individual component.

Then people complain about the latter and the defense that comes back is of the former. But that's no defense -- we could instead be making the good change and not the bad change.


> lacks clean and stable interfaces between its own components, inhibiting anyone else from providing a viable competing implementation

That's exactly what Microsoft did back in the era with Word and others, just like GP stipulated.




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