> One reason this is so great is because John is in his mid-50's. Even at that age, he still has a startup mentality.

Wow! Even at that age? I'm surprised he's even still alive!

Seriously, this is a weird bit of bigotry. I'm mostly surprised when I see the start-up mentality in anybody; it's rare in all age groups, not just the AARP-ready.

Even if it's not rarer for old people, a lot of people have the perception that it is. What's wrong with being inspired by an example that runs counter to that perception?

It's pretty harsh to say that the poster is intolerant of older people because he expects fewer of them to have the startup mentality. At the very worst, it's just naive.

It's rarer for old people, because they have more obligations and they're better-informed.

This is bullshit, plain and simple.

The only area this is even remotely demonstrable is in the tech sector. In other areas, most entrepreneurs are in their mid to late 30's, even their 40's, and have families and obligations.

In fact, with boomers now able to leverage the equity in their homes, many of them that have always had the desire are finally able to manifest it.

If you disagree with something, just refute it.

True enough.

It's just frustrating that something that has little evidence beyond the anecdotal is taken as gospel.

We've got to remember that being involved in tech start-ups or being in college tends means that our own experience is limited to that which we see everyday, and isn't necessarily the norm.

For example: "A 2005 CGC study of 3,000 job seekers found that 13 percent started their own businesses in the second quarter, up from 9.9 percent in the same quarter a year ago. And of that group, 86.6 percent were over 40, evidence that the next big wave of entrepreneurs may be seasoned workers, not college dropouts in Silicon Valley with a breakthrough technology concept." From here: http://www.usnews.com/usnews/biztech/articles/060403/3primet...

And Here: "...last available government statistics on business startups revealed that the average entrepreneur is white, male, aged 36," From Here: http://www.startups.co.uk/The_average_entrepreneur.YYB-B-hoS...

And Here: "According to a Vanderbilt University study the number of entrepreneurs age 45 to 64 will grow by 15 million by 2006. That"s compared to a 4 million decline for entrepreneurs age 25 to 44." From: http://www.ez2find.info/entrepreneur/Small_Business_QA_Entre...

Now, until we see statistics that suggest the failure rate is a lot lower for younger entrepreneurs, the age question has obviously been blown out of proportion based on a few opinions, valid as they may be.

It's cool that you actually googled some stats.

But let's face it -- we're on news.ycombinator.com, where the majority of the applicants and chosen entrepreneurs seem to be college kids or people in their twenties. (with a few outliers?)

A large chunk of the general population thinks it's entrepreneurial to join up with Amway, or do a consulting biz. (which it might be, just not what we're talking about here)

>But let's face it -- we're on news.ycombinator.com, where the majority of the applicants and chosen entrepreneurs seem to be college kids or people in their twenties. (with a few outliers?)

In other words: Don't let the facts get in the way of a good opinion! :-)

I get you, and believe me I agree, but as entrepreneurs, it's always good to keep two things front and centre:

1. We live as part of a much larger world. 2. Our perceptions often lie to us.

If I'm the only one preaching that, so be it. Perhaps it helps one lucky person someday.

ouch - i'm an outlier.

The founder of Second Cup (a coffee chain in Canada) told us what happened when a Starbucks opened across the street from a current Second Cup.

"The lady was furious. She had invested her entire life savings into the Second Cup, put so much energy into getting her store off the ground, and now when things were finally looking up, Starbucks moved in."

What ended up happening according to Sean O'Dea, the Professor giving us the lecture, was that her Second Cup sales WENT UP 25%. The extra competition somehow begot more coffee sales for both parties.

Makes sense:

When the line at Starbucks is long and yours is short, people come to you.

When people want variety, they come to you. I don't go to the same restaurant in my neighborhood each time - I mix them up. People don't necessarily want the same coffee every day.

Because there are coffee customers in the neighborhood that aren't already yours, you have an audience for your specials and sales that is relatively easy to reach. People won't go five blocks out of their way for a one-day, 20% off sale on bagels, but they might go five feet.

Starbucks marketing is so much more effective than yours that they will attract customers that you never could. Once they're in the neighborhood, these customers are much more likely to come and taste your coffee - after all, if your coffee sucks, they can always spit it out and go back over to Starbucks. If your coffee doesn't suck, some of those customers will become regulars. Many people prefer local shops over chains... if the effort to switch is low, and if you make it easy to switch back.

I remember reading that this is why specialty shops often tend to cluster in specific districts of a city. You would intuitively think that the best spot to open a new store is an underserved location far from existing shops . But, in fact, you're often better off opening a store one block away from your competitor, where there's some pre-existing traffic that is happy to do some comparison shopping. I once talked to a computer store operator who had deliberately set up shop across the parking lot from a new Micro Center, and he told me the same thing.

To get my coffee fix, Starbucks is always the second choice. The only time I drink that sewage is if I'm stuck in an airport. In Baton Rouge, there is a local chain of coffee houses called CC's that serve much better brew. The mom-and-pop shops do pretty well, too.

> When the line at Starbucks is long and yours is short, people come to you.

That runs counter to the theory that "no one wants to eat an empty restaurant". Maybe it's different for coffee though?

Close competition validates a business sector. "This intersection has four gas stations--let's stop at one now, like everybody else has."

In fact, like the manager implies, it's more likely that Second Cup will be stealing business from Starbucks than vice versa!

It's very simple. Almost every local and visitor who notices the two coffee shops will automatically think Second Cup must be much better if it's surviving against a franchise setup across the street! Their curiosity will get the better of them. The only way Second Cup can lose is if they have a pessimistic attitude with the customers, because word will spread. The local newspaper will write an article about the coffee business in three months time--it will either say Starbucks is a welcome addition; that they're hurting small businesses; or, in the best case, that both businesses are doing well. It's free publicity in any case.

I think Second Cup will see an increase in out-of-town visitors. A lot of visitors will have already tried Starbucks coffee elsewhere, and when they're asking for recommendations, the locals will recommend 100 Coffee Street where Starbucks and Second Cup are, than Trevor's Coffee at 23 Vine Drive where there's only one option.

But Second Cup won't only benefit from out of town visitors. The locals will respect Second Cup even more for being the little guy. (Remember, until paired up with the big guy, they were just another small business, like a Laundromat.) Next, anybody who wants coffee is now much more likely just to drive down that street, and make up their mind on which business to visit while driving there (customers know they don't have to make a decision until they get there, and if one is closed or busy, the other one will be open.)

Third, businessmen have a safe bet on taking clients to a coffee shop, as well--whether the client wants a Starbucks they're familiar with or a local flavor.

Finally, anybody who runs errands to pick up coffee for a group of employees can easily pickup coffee ordered from either place.

The true business that would be hurt in this case would be a 3rd, lonely coffee shop in that town.

Wow, guys. This is pretty disgusting. The first set of comments were really interesting, then.. What? I'm a bigot? What by'view said was bullshit? Wonderful. Grow up.

Yeah, maybe it was silly to call attention to the fact that he's approaching 60, but guess what? People get old. When they get older they get more and more tired. So it's really great, even inspirational, that he is still fighting the good fight even though he's done this kind of thing his whole life.

Jeez.

We have a florist's shop a block away from our house, and another one farther down the street. A year or two ago, a Kabloom opened up on the same block as the local florist. The florist was pissed, partly because the Kabloom franchisee had gotten a grant from a quasi-public agency that promotes business development in our neighborhood.

I don't know if the local florist has gotten more or less business since Kabloom showed up, but she's still in business.

In Milwaukee, WI on Brady st. there are 3 cafes within walking distance, a Starbucks and two local establishments; Rochambo, and Anodyne. I find it odd, and awesome that either of the local establishments have more business than Starbucks does. In fact there is so much more business in these other two cafes that a 3rd could probably still spring up and beat the Starbucks.

Heh, in Vancouver BC, there are two Starbucks' kitty corner from each other.

Quite a sight actually.

at 50, john is way too old to have a startup mentality. he has kids, mortgage, etc to worry about. didn't you read the other posts at this site?

Is this flame bait, or are you really that stupid? One key principle in business is to assume nothing. Another is to never underestimate your potential competition. You just violated both in one sentence. Oh wait, you're too young to know any better.

Neither. It's called "sarcasm" and was meant to hint at the set of links that typically appear on the front page related to the topic of age and entrepreneurs. I apologize that you are so severely offended.

No need to apologize. I'm not offended. Just too old to know any better.

You are such a wet blanket! ha ha

Sorda socialistic, don't you think? Oh well,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6cOp6EDFlI

wow, my karma really took a hit, I wasn't trying to spam here guys