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But absolutely must ensure that it is free market. Since 90s the biggest threat to free markets is not socialism but monopolies and oligopolies. (Even good social safety net enhance freedom of economic activity).


How the mighty monopolies have fallen:

IBM Sears RCA Intel GE Disney Kmart Kodak Novell Lotus Wordstar AT&T Microsoft

without any push from the government.

> Even good social safety net enhance freedom of economic activity

No actual evidence of that. The US boomed for 150 years before there was a social safety net. The greatest lifting of people out of poverty ever seen.


> How the mighty monopolies

How some mighty monopolies have fallen. Your examples don't refute GP's point, unless you'd like to assert that monopolies and oligopolies don't exist anymore.

> The greatest lifting of people out of poverty ever seen.

How do you square that with the fact that United States, with your platonic ideal of economic policies, has the highest rate of poverty in the developed world?


I didn't say they didn't exist. I said that history shows they don't last.

> has the highest rate of poverty in the developed world?

The poverty rate in the US was declining until 1968, when it started going back up. What happened in 1968? Welfare.


> The US boomed for 150 years before there was a social safety net.

The social safety net was a continent's worth of land to settle and develop.


I suggest reading up on the hardships the settlers had. Their death rate was pretty high. Tens of thousands died on the Oregon Trail.


>How the mighty monopolies have fallen: >IBM Sears RCA Intel GE Disney Kmart Kodak Novell Lotus Wordstar AT&T Microsoft >without any push from the government.

How has Disney fallen? Last I checked, they seem to be doing better than ever, and have gobbled up so many IP franchises they look more like a monopoly than ever (Star Wars, Marvel, etc.).

Microsoft sure hasn't fallen either. Windows isn't quite as dominant as before, but MS got even bigger by moving to cloud stuff instead of just relying on Windows/Office.

Sears was never a monopoly of any kind, that I remember. Neither was Kmart, or Wordstar, or GE. AT&T, formerly Bell, was a monopoly and got a huge push from the government in the form of a forced break-up in the 80s. The AT&T of modern times (the cellular company) was never a monopoly of any sort.


Fallen from their dominant market position.


Who cares? The only thing that's important to a company is profitability. I can't be bothered to do any research, but I'm pretty sure MS is just as profitable as ever, if not moreso.


Coming from Norway I highly recommend finding oil and having a socialist government. Great way to make the country rich. Hard for others to reproduce though.


1. An economy driven by physical commodities like oil are susceptible to corruption and stagnation. 2. Norways dependence on oil has prevented it from doing anything meaningful economically or technologically.


Don’t forget about our pretty large aluminium industry, arms exporter or salmon exporter.


Any economy can be rich if it's floating on an ocean of oil.


And yet the Norwegians, unusually, have managed to do it in a way where ordinary people benefit.


It's still irrelevant to this topic as Norway did not create wealth, it just pumped it out of the ground.


I strongly disagree, as long as you frame the topic more reasonably as 'Want growth (that doesn't only benefit a small group of kleptocrats)?'.


Unless you allege that socialism can create an ocean of oil under the country, I'm not buying that.


This can go both ways. Have you heard of Venezuela?


Too bad it didn't work out for Venezuela.


It didn't work for Angola, either.


A communist government will manage to convert any riches into abject poverty. Every single time.


You might be confusing communism with dictatorship.


I assure you I am not. I lived under communism so I know it’s stench.

It is usually quickly followed by dictatorship though, since force must be used to keep people living under it. Otherwise productive people will naturally pursue prosperity for themselves and their loved ones, which leads straight to capitalism.


Can’t say much for Angola, but Venezuela has been a dictatorship since Chavez took to power. A friend of mine was told to come in to register her passport at the embassy so she could vote in the upcoming elections, her passport was returned a few days after the elections. It’s easy to be elected president when the people who vote against you can’t vote.

There’s China though. Their party is at least called a communist party. I wouldn’t call their politics communism, except for their land ownership laws. Basically a dictatorship, since anyone opposing the government seemingly ends up in prison. Hasn’t seemed to hinder their economic growth.


I agree with the sentiment. But I also think that big companies are somewhat immune to competition for various reasons. And that isn’t a “free market”. So above a certain size, let’s just say $100B in revenue, they need to face consequences like being broken up or higher taxes or whatever. Otherwise anytime someone makes a good product (Slack), a big company can copy it (Microsoft Teams) and bundle it to win the market without the real effort it takes to build a business from scratch.


> But I also think that big companies are somewhat immune to competition for various reasons

See the list of failed monopolies in another post here I made.




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