John Ousterhout realized that every single EDA tool at Berkeley wound up impleme...

bch · 2024-09-27T00:23:08.000000Z

> It is really hard to describe just how much better Tk was than anything else in the time frame.

This[0] vs (from memory w/o a computer atm…):

  #!/bin/env wish
  button .b
  .b configure -text “push me” -action {puts “don’t push me!”}
  pack .b

[0] https://users.cs.cf.ac.uk/Dave.Marshall/X_lecture/node5.html...

======

  #include <Xm/Xm.h> 
  #include <Xm/PushB.h>

  /* Prototype Callback function */

  void pushed_fn(Widget, XtPointer, XmPushButtonCallbackStruct *);


  main(int argc, char **argv) 

  {   Widget top_wid, button;
    XtAppContext  app;
   
    top_wid = XtVaAppInitialize(&app, "Push", NULL, 0, &argc, argv, NULL, NULL);

    button = XmCreatePushButton(top_wid, "Push_me", NULL, 0);
     /* tell Xt to manage button */
   XtManageChild(button);
         
  /* attach fn to widget */
    XtAddCallback(button, XmNactivateCallback, pushed_fn, NULL);

    XtRealizeWidget(top_wid);    /* display widget hierarchy */
    XtAppMainLoop(app); /* enter processing loop */ 

  }

  void pushed_fn(Widget w, XtPointer client_data, XmPushButtonCallbackStruct *cbs) 
  {   
     printf("Don't Push Me!!\n");
  }

haspok · 2024-09-27T08:10:27.000000Z

-command instead of -action, but otherwise perfect! :)

bch · 2024-09-27T15:44:11.000000Z

I also used the wrong path for /usr/bin/env ;)

throw0101b · 2024-09-27T01:24:52.000000Z

> You need a language that is small yet still complete. Even today, the only languages that really fit that bill are Scheme/Lisp, Tcl, and Forth.

Lua?

It's used in (and used for?) a lot of embedding:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lua_(programming_language)

bsder · 2024-09-27T04:47:37.000000Z

Tcl was 1988. Lua was 1993.

Lua is quite a bit larger than Tcl. In addition, no two Lua installations can ever agree on which modules they require (which makes the actual Lua binary even bigger).

fullstop · 2024-09-27T13:22:02.000000Z

Larger? On my system libtcl8.6.so is 1.7 megabytes and liblua5.1.so is 192 kilobytes. It's not even close. Lua uses libraries / modules based on where you tell the interpreter they are located, so that's on you.

Set package.path and package.cpath correctly.

bsder · 2024-09-27T21:30:47.000000Z

You are comparing 2024 versions.

Go find the original tarball versions from 1990 (maybe you have to go to Usenet sources!). Tcl was small.

fullstop · 2024-09-27T21:37:16.000000Z

Ah, you used "is" and not "was" in your original post.

I wonder if TCL 2.1 will compile with modern gcc?

bsder · 2024-09-28T00:43:00.000000Z

That would probably be painful. It's old-style C.

Better to start with Jim Tcl or Picol.

Even something like Tiny Tcl would be a better start (I think it fit in 64K).

zephyrfalcon · 2024-10-01T14:49:54.000000Z

> You need a language that is small yet still complete. Even today, the only languages that really fit that bill are Scheme/Lisp, Tcl, and Forth.

Maybe Io or REBOL fall into this category as well...? Or Logo...

KerrAvon · 2024-09-27T00:40:02.000000Z

HyperCard existed.

Big missed opportunity for Tcl was the lack of a solid version of Tk for classic Mac (30 years ago). Would have made early Python less essential.

buescher · 2024-09-27T01:02:00.000000Z

Tk was pretty usable for tcl/tk use cases on Mac by later 7.x releases, say 1996 or so. Still hard to get a really native UX on Windows or Mac though. HyperCard was already on its way out. 30 years ago is maybe closer than you think?