Except for the freakishly gifted, all of us are too dumb to get through college in many majors.
Disagree strongly. Most people are too undisciplined to get through the "hard" majors, or too uninterested to get through the "softer" ones (e.g. engineers who claim they couldn't have done a history major).
I agree that not everyone should be going to college. A proportion higher than 10% doesn't make sense to me. However, I'd guess that 20-40% have enough raw intellectual ability to pass through college with decent grades, and that 5-10% could complete virtually any major. The important point is that, although a quarter or more have the intellectual mettle to get through college, they have no interest in the coursework, and are going through the motions only to be employable.
I'll also point out that American college students are not working full-throttle. At demanding colleges (Ivies, MIT, top LACs) they might average 30-40 hours per week on classes and homework. At "average" colleges-- filled mostly by students who don't belong there for reasons of motivation (to get a job) rather than ability-- it's closer to 10-20.
At demanding colleges (Ivies, MIT, top LACs) they might average 30-40 hours per week on classes and homework.
Not true, at least as you state it. When I was at MIT, I was spending about 30-40 hours per week on homework for a single class. Not all my classes were this hard, but there was at least one ball-buster per term. And I was far from alone in this regard.
I kept MIT manageable by (1) majoring in math and (2) settling for Bs. They keep cramming more material into engineering programs without taking anything out. Math was better in that regard. A lot of MIT students even managed to do extracurriculars without having to drop out.
Fair call. MIT is known to be hard and I know nothing about it, so I'll defer to you on this one. I was just listing it on the roster of "demanding colleges". Evidently, MIT is in a league of its own when it comes to being demanding.
I've heard Cornell and Swarthmore are too - those are other colleges with a "throw work at you until you break" reputation. And Harvard is if you want an A, but 80% of Harvard students get Bs anyway, so most figure they'll just settle for that and work about as hard as any other liberal arts college.
Amherst was usually about 20-30 hours/week between classes and homework, except when I took Quantum Mechanics or OS Design, each of which required 20-30 hours/week by itself.
To quote my freshmen year English professor, "Anything is hard if you do it well."
I went to a decent state school, but I averaged more than 40 hours a week on classes and class work. Most of my classes were computer science, math and physics. I wanted to do well in things that were hard, so it was hard.
But I do agree with your main point: it's not lack of intelligence that prevents people from getting through certain majors. It's mostly a lack of motivation and work ethic.
Disagree strongly. Most people are too undisciplined to get through the "hard" majors, or too uninterested to get through the "softer" ones (e.g. engineers who claim they couldn't have done a history major).
I agree that not everyone should be going to college. A proportion higher than 10% doesn't make sense to me. However, I'd guess that 20-40% have enough raw intellectual ability to pass through college with decent grades, and that 5-10% could complete virtually any major. The important point is that, although a quarter or more have the intellectual mettle to get through college, they have no interest in the coursework, and are going through the motions only to be employable.
I'll also point out that American college students are not working full-throttle. At demanding colleges (Ivies, MIT, top LACs) they might average 30-40 hours per week on classes and homework. At "average" colleges-- filled mostly by students who don't belong there for reasons of motivation (to get a job) rather than ability-- it's closer to 10-20.