Come on, you're actively avoiding anything that paints Israel as less than saintly.
> For years, the Qatari government had been sending millions of dollars a month into the Gaza Strip — money that helped prop up the Hamas government there. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel not only tolerated those payments, he had encouraged them.
> Mossad chief, David Barnea, was asked a question that had not been on the agenda: Did Israel want the payments to continue?
> Mr. Netanyahu’s government had recently decided to continue the policy, so Mr. Barnea said yes.
> The premier’s policy of treating the terror group as a partner, at the expense of Abbas and Palestinian statehood, has resulted in wounds that will take Israel years to heal from
> For years, the various governments led by Benjamin Netanyahu took an approach that divided power between the Gaza Strip and the West Bank — bringing Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas to his knees while making moves that propped up the Hamas terror group.
> The idea was to prevent Abbas — or anyone else in the Palestinian Authority’s West Bank government — from advancing toward the establishment of a Palestinian state.
I suppose the Times of Israel is anti-semitic, too?
> And I ask again: there were no reasonable security concerns behind the blockade according to you? Just for evil funsies?
There's no room for conversation here. You doggedly hang on to issues even after they've been answered.
I literally said "Hamas was actively attacking Israel".
> "Yes, Hamas was financed by the government of Israel in an attempt to weaken the Palestinian Authority led by Fatah," Borrell said in a speech in the University of Valladolid in Spain without elaborating.
EU Foreign Policy Chief Josep Borrell.
> "Blowback: How Israel Went from Creating Hamas to Bombing It"
And what do you have? "Some guy on HN says Israel (and the US) supported the PLO against Hamas".
Huh. US involvement: "The US committed $59 million for training and non-lethal equipment for the Presidential Guard".
Fun fact, the amount that was sent to Hamas with Netanyahu's -specific and explicit- approval was around that much... every month... for near two decades.
But, as mentioned, I cannot see fruitful outcomes from further discussion here.
I regret the phrasing “U.S. and Israel backed coup”, since it makes them sound like equal participants and the discussion is now marginalizing the U.S.’s involvement. But like I said elsewhere, both the coup attempt and Israel’s support for Hamas at other points in time are well documented.
I think your contributions on this have been useful and valuable.
Parent keeps harping about Hamas coming to power in 2006 and that that is when the blockades started and that people should "figure out why those dates align", steadfastly refusing to acknowledge that the airport had been bombed in 1999 and runways dug up in 2001.
Oh, and any claim about Hamas being supported by Israel is apparently anti-semitic.
> I literally said "Hamas was actively attacking Israel".
You did? It was buried under lots of anti-Israel rhetoric that it was hard to see.
The blockade was introduced to the discussion as yet but one more example of Israel oppressing the poor Gazans, presented as if it were some kind of arbitrary evil simply to control Gazans with no other rhyme or reason. It turns out that there was a reason, actually. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40271323
So, without cruft:
2005: Israel withdrew from Gaza
2007: Israel blockades Gaza
we have "Hamas actively attacked Israel"
It seems a very straightforward cause and effect.
> Come on, you're actively avoiding anything that paints Israel as less than saintly.
Not at all. However, I do note with sadness that you and the other guy could not simply answer the question. Lots of diversion into how awful Israel is before at last a grudging admission that the blockade was in response to attacks.
Do you think it's at least possible that your firm and unwavering anti-Israel stance is informed itself by this kind of rhetoric? Just a thought.
Ok, now that that's established, I'll dig into this allegation of Netenyahu funding Hamas in order to deny Palestinians a state. And while I'm at it the other guy's allegation that at the same time Israel funded a coup against Hamas. Sounds suss out of the gate but who knows? Maybe this is the smoking gun that Israel is led by demons.
I find that most anti-Israel rhetoric is like that. Israel builds a wall in response to a wave of attacks: "Israel is building an open air prison". Israel blockades Gaza in response to tunnels: "Israel just wants to control Gazans lives" and so forth. Israel destroying an airport? Gee, I wonder why they did that? What possible reason could those monsters have for doing such a despicable act? Any ideas?
> For years, the Qatari government had been sending millions of dollars a month into the Gaza Strip — money that helped prop up the Hamas government there. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel not only tolerated those payments, he had encouraged them.
> Mossad chief, David Barnea, was asked a question that had not been on the agenda: Did Israel want the payments to continue?
> Mr. Netanyahu’s government had recently decided to continue the policy, so Mr. Barnea said yes.
Source: "‘Buying Quiet’: Inside the Israeli Plan That Propped Up Hamas" - https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-q...
> The premier’s policy of treating the terror group as a partner, at the expense of Abbas and Palestinian statehood, has resulted in wounds that will take Israel years to heal from
> For years, the various governments led by Benjamin Netanyahu took an approach that divided power between the Gaza Strip and the West Bank — bringing Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas to his knees while making moves that propped up the Hamas terror group.
> The idea was to prevent Abbas — or anyone else in the Palestinian Authority’s West Bank government — from advancing toward the establishment of a Palestinian state.
Source: "For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces" - https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up...
I suppose the Times of Israel is anti-semitic, too?
> And I ask again: there were no reasonable security concerns behind the blockade according to you? Just for evil funsies?
There's no room for conversation here. You doggedly hang on to issues even after they've been answered.
I literally said "Hamas was actively attacking Israel".
> "Yes, Hamas was financed by the government of Israel in an attempt to weaken the Palestinian Authority led by Fatah," Borrell said in a speech in the University of Valladolid in Spain without elaborating.
EU Foreign Policy Chief Josep Borrell.
> "Blowback: How Israel Went from Creating Hamas to Bombing It"
Source: https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-c...
This isn't anti-semitic conspiracy theory.
And what do you have? "Some guy on HN says Israel (and the US) supported the PLO against Hamas".
Huh. US involvement: "The US committed $59 million for training and non-lethal equipment for the Presidential Guard".
Fun fact, the amount that was sent to Hamas with Netanyahu's -specific and explicit- approval was around that much... every month... for near two decades.
But, as mentioned, I cannot see fruitful outcomes from further discussion here.