I'm actually not a libertarian. I guess I'm your standard European socialist: I'm all good taxing (us) rich and providing for the poor.

It still is a choice whether one chooses to work, as evidenced by those who chose not to.

Edit: the "luxuries" was slightly tongue in cheek and perhaps didn't land well. Anyway, you're free to move to the wilderness, hunt/grow your own food, build your own shelter, and do without the socio-economic system altogether.

You could have fooled me because that is the same immature definition of voluntary and choice that libertarians espouse.

Voluntary is not binary. If someone put a gun to your head and told you to eat shit you technically have a choice but it's not much of choice is it?

> If someone put a gun to your head [...]

That would be a rather easy choice to make!

We aren't entitled to a roof over head and food etc, that's all I'm saying. We should be grateful when we happen to luck into circumstances (such as a job) that allow us to have roof/food. It's not something everyone has.

Saying we were involuntarily forced into having a job/roof/food feels very strange when compared with the people who weren't forced to have either of these three things.

We are entitled to a roof and food and it’s a tragedy that some people don’t have those things.

You’re not being empathetic by saying the opposite, you’re giving assholes with power an excuse to take those things away or make it harder to provide them to people.

I don’t understand why you’d say we’re being forced to have food and shelter, that makes no sense. We need food and shelter, which is why employment isn’t voluntary.

> We are entitled to a roof and food

What does that mean even?

> it’s a tragedy that some people don’t have those things.

Agreed.

> I don’t understand why you’d say we’re being forced to have food and shelter, that makes no sense.

I was trying to take your position to the absurd extreme. You said employment was not voluntary, I took that to mean that you're forced to have food and shelter.

> We need food and shelter, which is why employment isn’t voluntary.

I don't know how else to explain this to you. As an objective fact, there are people who choose not to work. They do without. Some of them even manage to lead fulfilling lives. How can you pretend it's not a choice?

Seriously? You're really doubling down on this argument that technically there are people who choose not to work?

What a stupid, disingenuous fucking argument. You realize for the vast majority of people, food and shelter are top priority right? This is the foundation of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs.

> What does that mean even?

Since I apparently need to explain the basics to you, entitled means "believing oneself to be inherently deserving". So yes, I think every human is entitled to food and shelter.

If socialism was a club, I'd take away your membership. Jesus christ.

> You realize for the vast majority of people, food and shelter are top priority right? This is the foundation of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs.

Yes, and that is exactly why they choose to work! Because they want to have shelter and food! What don't you understand here!

> entitled means "believing oneself to be inherently deserving"

You strike me as a rather entitled person. What does "deserving" even mean?

I wish we could all have shelter and food without working and can't wait for you to solve this rather pressing issue.