FreeBSD has its merits, but comparing its jails to Docker isn't entirely fair. Many applications well-suited for systems like TrueNAS often lack documentation for running within a FreeBSD jail, or on FreeBSD in general—Jellyfin is a case in point.
Additionally, I recently attempted to install FreeBSD on my ThinkPad, which has an Intel Wi-Fi chip, and found that software support remains lacking. This extends to other features like Widevine, making it impossible to use streaming services such as Netflix, Prime Video, or Spotify.
For FreeBSD to approach even a fraction of Linux' mainstream adoption, significant development and support improvements are necessary.
Docker was primarily a UI and UX benefit, and that’s very well aligned with the market, skills, documentation, etc.
I can’t imagine that the market for people that care TrueNAS is on FreeBSD, prefer Jails to Docker, and know how to set up all their software in Jails, but aren’t doing their own FreeBSD + ZFS setup from scratch and depend on TrueNAS, is more than a handful of people.
I got tired of how corporatized Linux has gotten a few years ago, ported a bunch of personal projects and services to FreeBSD jails, and haven't looked back.
Features aren't 1:1, but slimming down my Linux hosts has massively decreased the amount of time I have to spend administrating instead of working.
> For FreeBSD to approach even a fraction of Linux' mainstream adoption, significant development and support improvements are necessary.
Which exactly? Because this isn't a fair argument.
> FreeBSD doesn't work with my WiFi chip
This is because 95% of the time vendors never push support for the OS. Remember ten years ago when vendors didn't even support Linux? I recall those days when WiFi was pretty much non-existent on Linux.
I'm sick of the blaming FreeBSD gets for something that they have no control over.
Everything Linux can do, I can do in FreeBSD. What features are you missing from FreeBSD?
Docker is always shouted the loudest; DevOp gibberish for laziness. The overhead and tech debt for Docker is atrocious, security is abysmal, but you don't need to worry about that as long you have a shiny button that starts your container.
If you actually had documentation for your stack, you could run it in a jail with less-effort, more security and better performance than docker, k8 and podman combined.
But this isn't FreeBSD's problem; and when it is, there's probably an alternative and a better one at that. Blame the product for not supporting thas requiring additional engineering that costs resources.
> This extends to other features like Widevine, making it impossible to use streaming services such as Netflix, Prime Video, or Spotify.
This isn't FreeBSD's fault nor impossible.
> Widevine is a proprietary digital rights management (DRM) system developed by Google.
Google is the culprit here; they could support FreeBSD but refuse to. So you can't blame FreeBSD and that FreeBSD doesn't bend over to Google is ++.
I'm watching South Park right now on Paramount Plus just fine via a PreSonus Pre-Amp, with four screens on XFCE with two of those connected via daisy chaining with a glass of wine. Heck, if I turn on my TV I can instantly connect to my DNLA server that runs on my home machine in a jail. How's that for snark?
Netflix and all other DRM platforms can work just fine via Google Chrome with Linux Compat installed requiring no other requirements which is pretty amazing in my eyes. [0]
The fact that FreeBSD has the ability to do something as cool as that makes it to my books. I can use Linux in FreeBSD, yet can't use FreeBSD in Linux without a VM? How boring.
My servers in colocation have solidity in uptime, I can't fault it, but maybe I'm bias. FreeBSD is my daily driver.
There's no requirement in needing to reboot, Linux, yeah I understand the need to. FreeBSD, nah. I should, but not concerned. I have multiple jails running bHyve virtual machines all with the same amount of uptime. I'm sure this will make folk froth at the mouth, why should I reboot when in the past 790 days, I've had no issues? And I'm sure CVE's exist.. for all the packages that I'm not running that would be running on Linux.
Everything is isolated to a jail and with the server only running jails of the latest version of FreeBSD, that's firewalled off to the world with it's own efficient network stack and my own selection of kernel - show me Linux doing the same.
Show me something where FreeBSD has been refusing on implementing. There has been a reason to why Sony, Nintendo, NASA, Apple and more have all used source of BSD to power their core of their products.
> Everything Linux can do, I can do in FreeBSD. What features are you missing from FreeBSD?
I've been a FreeBSD user since 4.3.
I've supplied commercial support for FreeBSD and OpenBSD solutions. I've done development for many years using FreeBSD VM's (mostly on windows, because I like properly rendered fonts and a working copy/paste).
Around 6 years ago I just switched to linux as a main system, as I had just switched jobs . Meanwhile, my main desktop and work machine runs linux. Let me give you a list of reasons that are definitely FreeBSD's fault:
- LUKS (multi-key)
- Modern graphical support (sort of just works - I use Xorg);
official nvidia drivers with a 6 year old card
- recent DE (Kubuntu)
- Virtualbox support
- Docker or KVM support
- UTF-8 as a default
- Docker
- Kubernetes
Half of these aren't server requirements - I still run some FreeBSD machines; but any GUI usage is just...crap. For the rest, there isnt an upper leg anymore - linux has Dtrace, pretty stable ZFS, and better scalability on heavily multithreaded/smp applications.
FreeBSD is sill strong on the edge networking, partially because it doesn't have the linux complexity; that will change sooner or later. Sooner, I'd guess.
Linux compatibility is a great feature, but as a heavy user of Firefox and KVM, I find some alternatives in FreeBSD like Bhyve a bit lacking, especially in areas like PCI passthrough. For example, it can be unreliable, even stopping to work after the system wakes up from sleep.
Also, while FreeBSD's flexibility is impressive, allowing the use of Linux binaries, it's worth noting that there aren't many scenarios where using FreeBSD on Linux without a VM is necessary. What unique capabilities does FreeBSD offer that Linux doesn't?
Additionally, the BSD license is indeed powerful, allowing companies like Sony, Nintendo, NASA, and Apple to use and modify FreeBSD without the obligation to contribute back. While this has broadened FreeBSD's usage, the license can also be seen as a double-edged sword because it diminishes the incentive for these companies to contribute back to the community, which could potentially slow down the development and improvement of FreeBSD in certain areas.
Ok. Your comment brought nothing very interesting in my humble opinion. What's your opinion on the move? What particularly makes sense to move Trueness to Linux?
The original ixSystems explanation was what made the most sense: their engineers spent more time developing freebsd itself than trunas. Unlike on linux, where the ratio was different. So it's not a surprise, that they prefer the better maintained platform.
ZFS is maturing on Linux and the codebase and general focus is on Linux today.
Hardware compatibility and mindshare are also big factors.
It seems like a subset of the TrueNAS community reveled in the fact that Core was FreeBSD-based. Maybe just a bit contrarian.
I've had meh experiences supporting, repairing and transitioning installations away from ixSystems. I wouldn't advocate their offerings in the first place, but it does seem like you have unrealistic expectations from ixSystems.
This is why I read HN. Where else would I get exposure to a cult this small, with this much passion for something so obscure. Thank you for bringing a smile to my face and restoring my faith in nerds.
TLDR post by the person who still adores Jails and believes it's superior to Docker ecosystem.
From the another article which author definitely has read:
> What’s happened now with the transition to having a Debian basis, the people I used to have 90 percent of their time working on FreeBSD, they’re working on ZFS features now … That’s what I want to see; value add for everybody versus sitting around, implementing something Linux had a years ago. And trying to maintain or backport, or just deal with something that you just didn’t get out of box on FreeBSD.”
( https://blocksandfiles.com/2024/04/08/ixsystems-no-one-is-ge... )
It should be clear on extra costs and lacking behind - I tend to trust IXsystems here more than FreeBSD user.
From the current article situation with security updates breaking the system is, let's say nice - my bet here is FreeBSD is lacking LTS and it matters. I guess it's not a problem on Debian due to its stable packages policy.
From my personal observations, decay of FreeBSD was mentioned by many since 2010 if not earlier, so nothing new here. Time to stop galvanize it.
Additionally, I recently attempted to install FreeBSD on my ThinkPad, which has an Intel Wi-Fi chip, and found that software support remains lacking. This extends to other features like Widevine, making it impossible to use streaming services such as Netflix, Prime Video, or Spotify.
For FreeBSD to approach even a fraction of Linux' mainstream adoption, significant development and support improvements are necessary.