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Related: https://www.thebignewsletter.com/p/explosive-new-documents-u... ("BIG by Matt Stoller: Explosive New Documents Unearthed On Live Nation/Ticketmaster")


Much of this is voodoo accounting since Live Nation through intermediary own most of the venues, promoters, services, security, catering and so on.

It's just using their vertical integration and monopoly to move as much money onto their books and increase ticket prices and margins.

Shady.


  move as much money onto their books and increase ticket prices and margins
If we assume their actions don't reduce the supply of shows+seats, the impact might fall only on artists and venues. i.e. it's possible that prices paid by fans would be same with or without these schemes.


Consumers care about the final ticket price. So if TM charges less fees the artist can just charge more face value until they reach the same equilibrium. Anyone that thinks consumers will be paying less is deluded.


Exactly.

Or ticket prices and fees will stay the same, and artists' share of fees will go up (it's not zero today).


You're missing the point. Live nation's control over the infrastructure of live music means they increase the costs of tours. Increased security, transport, and venue costs increase ticket prices.

All of these price increases have margin, which goes to Live Nation in the end.

TM will then say "ticket prices are increasing due to increase costs!" and skirt scrutiny of the fact that they're just diverting higher monetary amounts to companies they own and control.

It's a cartel of vertical integration.

They also squeeze artist's revenue by doing the same. They can only do this because they control so much of the market. Control that is anti-competitive and prevents the free-market pricing you describe.

The picture is bleak. The last 3 gigs I have been to, Live Nation owned:

Ticket supply and distribution (Ticket Master), the venue, the security (ShowSec), the tour buses and logistics, the catering at the venue, the promoter, ...

They control all the costs and competition in the market. If Showsec do the security for all their venues, nobody can compete on cost. Same with everything else.


Thanks for this, it provides a huge level of context as to how bad things really are and lays it out in a fairly decent way.


After having read the history of Standard Oil, any time I see the word "rebate" I now think something shady is definitely going on.


[flagged]


Please don't. We want HN to be a place for human comments, not generated ones.


OK got it.




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